Play Now Login Create Account
illyriad
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Devs: In my opinion it is time to add opt-in PVP
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Devs: In my opinion it is time to add opt-in PVP

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678>
Author
Rill View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar
Player Council - Geographer

Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2021 at 05:10
The original plan for The Broken Lands, prior to its release, was to have an area (Verten?) that would not have a PvP element. The developers fast-tracked the release of Broken Lands and left out that along with some other features. They left out the PvP-free zones because it was "quite easy to avoid combat", and decided that in combination with player feedback and difficulty in coding the PvP-free zones would not be released. It would be interesting to hear their thoughts on the issue five plus years later.


Back to Top
DeliciousJosh View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 403
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeliciousJosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2021 at 09:03
Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:


I should have formulated that a lot better, my fault. The current plains meta in PVP is in my opinion an exploit of the system. Terraforms are an exploit. It probably was not intended by the devs initially but people found it the best way to play. Something similar would happen with any exploit regarding opt-out PVP. People would test it and find a way to use it. As long as it is in the rules and it is not completely broken i do not have any issues with it. Terraforms for example are even good for the game.


Just to follow up on this one, the Terraforming option was always intended by the DEVS to create a versatile playground and to alter various places on the map to your advantage as a player, should you choose to indulge in paying for TF's or doing it yourself. Making all the squares 7food around your towns might be a bit much, but it is still an intention by the creators of the game so you as a player can maximize your income taxes to an optimal level

Originally posted by <span id=userPro39 =msgsidepro= title=View Drop Down>DeliciousJosh</span> DeliciousJosh wrote:


The pvp bubble still exists.

Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

According to Grom it doesn't. And thats my problem.

Grom is a big player and has a lot of leverage to move around with his diplomatic relations and attitude. Still, he is not the only player in the PvP scene with that kind of leverage, he just uses it very intelligently and bargains/makes deals where he sees fit, to accommodate his members in TCol, so that they can have the maximum fun. 
One player in this game can accomplish a lot more by chatting and talking to other players, than in pretty much any other game that I know about. The fact still remains that the bubble exists, since otherwise we are all aware that the game would suffer tremendously, and we don't want that.

We need the PvP scene to survive though. Mainly because a lot of the income (prestige bought and sold) comes from that exact part of the game. Sure, builders too, but they usually save the gold up they are making to buy the prestige. The PvP players usually don't have the same luxury of having lots of gold income.



Edited by DeliciousJosh - 20 Jun 2021 at 09:06

PublicRelations
HumanResources
Back to Top
DeliciousJosh View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 403
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeliciousJosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2021 at 09:16
Good point Rill. It was a hefty discussion at the time. 
The region in TBL called Kingslands was the original (and only place) that the PvP-Free Zone would be implemented by the way.

Here's a little snippet from the FAQ about TBL

Q: What happened to the proposed PvP-free Protected Zone? 

As we have been developing the Broken Lands, we discussed in great length the possibility that the PvP-free zones might not be in the best interest of the game. On top of that, coding these zones was proving to be problematic (to say the least.) It’s also quite easy to avoid combat in Illyriad, or to survive combat with the help of your friends or alliance mates. We also paid attention to player discussions on the topic and, in the end, decided that leaving the PvP-free zones out of the new land was the best decision.

----
I also found this one quite interesting :D

Q: How do the new Quests work on the Broken Lands?

Soon after The Broken Lands launch (once players and cities have begun settling in) a new Quest arc will begin – a series of interlinked Quests which will run for several months. Individual players and Alliances will be presented with choices, where they can investigate, scout, thieve, attack, defend, and raid through an evolving story arc. This is not simply following instructions or doing what the Quest text tells you. It is about making choices. There will be little consequences and small rewards along the way, and then at the end the continent will be permanently changed by the players' combined actions. This is a new continent. The Quests allow you to explore it, and change it.

Cool! I think this should happen although it might be reserved for AoA now. I think all the time is going to developing that right now, which is how it should be; since the team is so small and I want to play AoA as well as Illyriad. 


Edited by DeliciousJosh - 20 Jun 2021 at 09:17

PublicRelations
HumanResources
Back to Top
Thirion View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior


Joined: 10 Apr 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 212
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2021 at 09:40
As i said i am done with this topic and not going to engange in discussions about PVP in this game again. I had to write something about the following thing though ;)

Originally posted by DeliciousJosh DeliciousJosh wrote:

One player in this game can accomplish a lot more by chatting and talking to other players, than in pretty much any other game that I know about.

I used to play multiple (German-)PVP browser games 15-20 years ago when i was young (when there was no P2W component back then, e.g. "Inselkampf", "Die Stämme"/"Tribal Wars" or "Second Home"). Those games usually had 30-50 active alliances (with 30-100 members each) and leader diplomacy was a really important part of the game. Otherwise you and your alliance got completely wiped out. Would suck if games like that do not exist anymore - i had a lot of fun playing them at the time.
Back to Top
DeliciousJosh View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 403
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeliciousJosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2021 at 10:29
Gotcha :) No more PvP discussion in this thread.
It did spark some interest and some forum discussion which in my opinion (and as Wartow pointed out) is something we should have a lot more of.

And yes, those games you mentioned are good fun, or used to be. I think TW is still played. No clue about the others. They are different and the diplomacy are big parts of them too. Here in Illyriad it to me seems to be a bit differen though, and we as a community can quickly turn the tides of things. 
The plains meta is a bit stale for sure. In terms of the cav speeds and strength on plains, they should change something there. Or speed up the servers troops with 1.5 to 3 on all units. See how things go for a time span of 6months and reevaluate. 

PublicRelations
HumanResources
Back to Top
eowan the short View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster
Avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 870
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2021 at 12:54
Originally posted by DeliciousJosh DeliciousJosh wrote:


We need the PvP scene to survive though. Mainly because a lot of the income (prestige bought and sold) comes from that exact part of the game. Sure, builders too, but they usually save the gold up they are making to buy the prestige. The PvP players usually don't have the same luxury of having lots of gold income.


Given the tournaments, I'm not sure this is true.
Sure, non-pvp alliances were once mostly gold positive, but with a tournament every 3 months, many people are running near constant troop sov. They also have become one of the main drivers of demand in the markets, as they need to replenish their equipment far more often than pvp players do.

And, even if they do just use gold to buy prestige, that prestige still has to come from somewhere, and the gold value of prestige is often why people buy prestige in the first place. By creating demand for prestige, non-pvpers increase this gold value, making buying prestige with cash more compelling.


Edited by eowan the short - 20 Jun 2021 at 12:54
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
Back to Top
Mordok View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mordok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2021 at 22:27
lol...after 10 years of game play and still same discussion :-)

better to re-activate Players Council and start a UX project..maybe DEVS will listen to some new ideas...


Back to Top
Thirion View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior


Joined: 10 Apr 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 212
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2021 at 08:59
Originally posted by Mordok Mordok wrote:

lol...after 10 years of game play and still same discussion :-)

Its not just Illy. A lot of other MMO games have (or had) those discussions too. With a lot of different conclusions.

In my opinion it is never a discussion that can be completely "finished" - as the circumstances (rules, playerbase, ...) change over time.
Back to Top
Hyrdmoth View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 162
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hyrdmoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2021 at 14:04
I would be strongly opposed to an opt-in for PvP. My reason is that I think shades of grey are important.

A player may want to engage in PvP to a limited degree, but having a formal opt-in might feel to them like painting a huge target on their back, and it would dissuade them from taking any tentative steps to engage in PvP play.

I think everything should be done to encourage more grey, rather than stark contrasts between extremes.
Back to Top
Sif View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster
Avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2021
Location: Athens
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 22:51
One sugestion if the playier chose no pvp to can not be sieged but to can be attackted and thieved and blockaed and to have more army upkeep or no use of antiupkeep building.
Kinds of disandvantages that Will make him tO be something like Farmer.
Or beter to can chose some cities to be unsiegeable
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.