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Devs: In my opinion it is time to add opt-in PVP

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Solanar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Solanar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 18:06
I consider myself a pvp player. Or at least, a player with a pvp mindset. And yet my last war was....2 years ago, probably? I don't hold grudges and all the wars I lead YARR! for ended in white peace. But then, I also focused on active players with troops, rather than fighting the morale game and smashing people who were inactive or nonparticipatory. I have very clear ethics when it comes to pvp, but those ethics are mine (and by extension, YARR!'s) and are not something I have ever attempted to hold the game at large to. 

PVP players need all aspects of the game to be competitive. Non-PVP players need no aspects of the game, as whether they do something or don't do anything has no consequences. Setting high taxes and queuing saddles as a play style doesn't really impress me as gameplay, but ok, you do you. 

Illy as a whole is driven by a pvp economy. There is an excess otherwise. Nothing really has value without pvp. There is no, for lack of a better word, urgency in any other part of the game - for most people, getting to 60 towns probably required a lot of urgency when it came to shipping resources around. 

I've attacked people who attacked my people. I've attacked people who sent diplos/thieves at me/my people. I've sent sabs and troops at people who offended me in GC. I have razed towns that were exodused/settled adjacent to tourney squares because it offended my sense of fairness in the competition. I have sent direct attacks at cities to clear them out for the same. I would be quite upset if those actions, completely outside of all-out warfare, were hindered by a toggle switch that let people turn on a safe mode and avoid consequences for what they do and what they say. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wartow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 18:41
Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:

Opt out options are completely broken. So then only pvp cities are available for capture? Are thieves/sabs/spies going to stop functioning for opt out players (only scouts and messengers have PVE uses)? Is it going to block them from tourneys? 


Players opting out of PvP could not attack nor be attacked.  Some are warriors and some are surfs.  Surfs would find it limiting to hunt and difficult to get ahead in the game as a trader.  Cities can only be settled, not captured, by opt-out players.  Taxes would be so oppressive that they could not be effective gold farms.  That is the general idea.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 18:50
I do get and understand what you are saying.

Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:

I would be quite upset if those actions, completely outside of all-out warfare, were hindered by a toggle switch that let people turn on a safe mode and avoid consequences for what they do and what they say.


I am sorry for my suggestion. I hereby retract it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wartow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 18:54
Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:


Illy as a whole is driven by a pvp economy. There is an excess otherwise. Nothing really has value without pvp. There is no, for lack of a better word, urgency in any other part of the game - for most people, getting to 60 towns probably required a lot of urgency when it came to shipping resources around. 


The current lack of scarcity does make for a problem in the Illy economy.  Lots of land to settle with access to uncontested resources and not enough players creates ample supply but limits demand and the need for conflict.   

Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:



I've attacked people who sent diplos/thieves at me/my people. I've sent sabs and troops at people who offended me in GC. 

That was you?!? :)

The seasonal tournaments don't cause any bad blood that extends outside of the event itself.  The race based tournament bonuses are a nice idea and have created extra competition on a few squares to change the bonus into one that benefits all (or another race).  Perhaps a blight "bonus" or race based bonuses that include negatives for other races would up the regional challenges?

Otherwise, I hope JeJune's faction play efforts generate ideas that could contribute to seasonal tournament variety and generates competition to re-load before the next one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wartow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 18:57
Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:


I am sorry for my suggestion. I hereby retract it.


There are times within the game when the culture shifts and conversations like these help measure the current pulse of the game.  I wish more would contribute thoughts as an active forum is good for the game. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 19:12
Originally posted by Wartow Wartow wrote:

Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:


I am sorry for my suggestion. I hereby retract it.


There are times within the game when the culture shifts and conversations like these help measure the current pulse of the game.  I wish more would contribute thoughts as an active forum is good for the game. 


I agree. I have some ideas i am going to post but got distracted a few days ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 19:27
Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

I agree. I have some ideas i am going to post but got distracted a few days ago.


To make it clear, i am not talking about any suggestions about PVP. I am going to stay out of PVP.

I was talking about some ideas/suggestions i have to make the game easier and better for new and small players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 21:51
"Another option (though a lot harder to implement) would making some regions in Illy PVP and some non-PVP. For example make deserts PVP areas and everything else non-PVP. "
See: Solanar's post
 
"PVP players uniting to attack non-PVP players, forcing non-PVP players that hate PVP to engage in it and in the long run killing the non-PVP player base is in my opinion a problem that has no easy fix"
So instead your solution is to force PvP players to not play PvP and in the long run killing the PvP player base.
 
"Besides that, why should those alliances be forced to do PVP when they do not want to?"
Why should PvP alliances be forced to not do pvp?
 
"Why do not give the players the choice to play what they want?"
See above
 
You are entitled to your opinions Thirion, and we are entitled to point out the massive flaws in it.  "To make it clear, i am not talking about any suggestions about PVP. "  But what you are doing will effect PvP.  Everything is interconnected, and to call for a complete change to the fundamental state of the game simply because one alliance shifted who they are warring against is an overreaction of the highest order...and its imposing your will over everyone else.
 
Wartow: That would be great, if purely PvE people could be protected, but the problem is that a lot of the big PvE accounts are simply for supporting PvP beyond the 2 account rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 22:50
Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

I am sorry for my suggestion. I hereby retract it.


Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

I agree. I have some ideas i am going to post but got distracted a few days ago.

Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

To make it clear, i am not talking about any suggestions about PVP. I am going to stay out of PVP.

I was talking about some ideas/suggestions i have to make the game easier and better for new and small players.


I am sorry if i upset any player.

Edit: The discussion is finished from my side. The topic can be closed.


Edited by Thirion - 18 Jun 2021 at 22:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021 at 19:21

PvP is not broken in Illy, the economy is, in the sense there’s not enough to fight about: we have unlimited resources, distributed game wide, with unlimited forever storage, and land claims mean very little. So people invent stupid reasons to fight (and post about them dishonestly) and that generates bad feelings. And the resulting boy-drama is a turn-off to players who might otherwise be interested in combat dynamics, planning, etc. but instead get labelled things like ‘PvE’ and excluded. Faction-play and tourneys are inviting to a broader set of players, and given some time may produce real shifts both in views and habits. If you want more players involved actively in PvP, make it more appealing. Not every player who thinks you’re a jerk is only interested in making saddles.


Opt-out solves no problem to me. I’d rather see a cap on storage and some resources redistribution.

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