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Devs: In my opinion it is time to add opt-in PVP

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wartow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 18:54
Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:


Illy as a whole is driven by a pvp economy. There is an excess otherwise. Nothing really has value without pvp. There is no, for lack of a better word, urgency in any other part of the game - for most people, getting to 60 towns probably required a lot of urgency when it came to shipping resources around. 


The current lack of scarcity does make for a problem in the Illy economy.  Lots of land to settle with access to uncontested resources and not enough players creates ample supply but limits demand and the need for conflict.   

Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:



I've attacked people who sent diplos/thieves at me/my people. I've sent sabs and troops at people who offended me in GC. 

That was you?!? :)

The seasonal tournaments don't cause any bad blood that extends outside of the event itself.  The race based tournament bonuses are a nice idea and have created extra competition on a few squares to change the bonus into one that benefits all (or another race).  Perhaps a blight "bonus" or race based bonuses that include negatives for other races would up the regional challenges?

Otherwise, I hope JeJune's faction play efforts generate ideas that could contribute to seasonal tournament variety and generates competition to re-load before the next one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 18:50
I do get and understand what you are saying.

Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:

I would be quite upset if those actions, completely outside of all-out warfare, were hindered by a toggle switch that let people turn on a safe mode and avoid consequences for what they do and what they say.


I am sorry for my suggestion. I hereby retract it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wartow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 18:41
Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:

Opt out options are completely broken. So then only pvp cities are available for capture? Are thieves/sabs/spies going to stop functioning for opt out players (only scouts and messengers have PVE uses)? Is it going to block them from tourneys? 


Players opting out of PvP could not attack nor be attacked.  Some are warriors and some are surfs.  Surfs would find it limiting to hunt and difficult to get ahead in the game as a trader.  Cities can only be settled, not captured, by opt-out players.  Taxes would be so oppressive that they could not be effective gold farms.  That is the general idea.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Solanar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 18:06
I consider myself a pvp player. Or at least, a player with a pvp mindset. And yet my last war was....2 years ago, probably? I don't hold grudges and all the wars I lead YARR! for ended in white peace. But then, I also focused on active players with troops, rather than fighting the morale game and smashing people who were inactive or nonparticipatory. I have very clear ethics when it comes to pvp, but those ethics are mine (and by extension, YARR!'s) and are not something I have ever attempted to hold the game at large to. 

PVP players need all aspects of the game to be competitive. Non-PVP players need no aspects of the game, as whether they do something or don't do anything has no consequences. Setting high taxes and queuing saddles as a play style doesn't really impress me as gameplay, but ok, you do you. 

Illy as a whole is driven by a pvp economy. There is an excess otherwise. Nothing really has value without pvp. There is no, for lack of a better word, urgency in any other part of the game - for most people, getting to 60 towns probably required a lot of urgency when it came to shipping resources around. 

I've attacked people who attacked my people. I've attacked people who sent diplos/thieves at me/my people. I've sent sabs and troops at people who offended me in GC. I have razed towns that were exodused/settled adjacent to tourney squares because it offended my sense of fairness in the competition. I have sent direct attacks at cities to clear them out for the same. I would be quite upset if those actions, completely outside of all-out warfare, were hindered by a toggle switch that let people turn on a safe mode and avoid consequences for what they do and what they say. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 17:23
Originally posted by King Sigerius King Sigerius wrote:

Wooooo your opinion is the only one that matters! Screw everyone else!

Where did i say that?

Originally posted by King Sigerius King Sigerius wrote:

You don't pvp so why does it matter people would exploit the system!


Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:


If you don't care about exploits then I don't really have much else to say.

I should have formulated that a lot better, my fault. The current plains meta in PVP is in my opinion an exploit of the system. Terraforms are an exploit. It probably was not intended by the devs initially but people found it the best way to play. Something similar would happen with any exploit regarding opt-out PVP. People would test it and find a way to use it. As long as it is in the rules and it is not completely broken i do not have any issues with it. Terraforms for example are even good for the game.

Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:

Having to consider the actions of other people playing the game is what makes this an interesting, strategic game. Remove that and you may as well play something single-player.

It is for you. It is not for others. Why do not give the players the choice to play what they want? Why do some players have to fear PVP alliances and need to get bullied by them?

I posted a suggestion that in my opinion might be a good addition to the game. I get that PVP players do not like it (at all). Me and my former alliance got threatened from at least 3 different PVP players directly or indirectly because i have a different opinion then them?! I have little issues with it. I get that other players have huge issues with that. How is that healthy for the game?

Originally posted by <span id=userPro39 =msgSidePro title=View Drop Down>DeliciousJosh</span> DeliciousJosh wrote:


The pvp bubble still exists.

According to Grom it doesn't. And thats my problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeliciousJosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 16:59
In all these sandbox games the number one alliance gets challenged. It has happened before and ASCN has been at ear before against a lot of the same players attacking them now. At the time they resisted pretty well although they did lose some nonpvp players. Then they gained some new members again. All while players who were not happy about pvp could choose to leave ASCN and pay some kind of penalty fee (both for letting down their mates in the alliance by leaving snd having some rejoin penalties. In very few cases it came down to actual in game gold or prestige. 
The pvp bubble still exists. Just not vs ascn. They do shenanigans and act like they don't. That's my take on it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Solanar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 16:59
Quote Then let people exploit it, i have no issues with that. As long as players that dislike/hate PVP do not have to fight.


I was taking you seriously right up until that line. 

Look *outside* the current Ascn event, even though I know that is what triggered your post. You're asking to remove in-game, in-character, conflict resolution and consequences. 

Here, I have a solution for people who don't want to lose cities. Move to troll holes. If you find something that is "almost" a troll hole, you can fill it in with additional cities. Direct attacks can only kill troops and steal basic res. Build a vault. Sure, living in a troll hole significantly weakens your options in other ways, but look on the bright side, your cities are safe. 

If you don't care about exploits then I don't really have much else to say. If they are able to spend enough time and coding effort to even attempt to balance the consequences of an opt out system, then I still don't want them to do it - spend that time on something that is additive to the existing game rather than subtractive. 

Having to consider the actions of other people playing the game is what makes this an interesting, strategic game. Remove that and you may as well play something single-player. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Sigerius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 16:55
Wooooo your opinion is the only one that matters! Screw everyone else!  You don't pvp so why does it matter people would exploit the system! Lmao I have 0 respect for you after these forum posts, you are now a target in my eyes. God forbid the devs listen to your demands, better remove you before that happens!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 16:28
Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:

The same suggestion that happened during the great war. Have better diplomacy. If there really are so many more pve players than pvp, then they ought to be able to overwhelm the minority by banding together.

Good luck with that. When i started the non-PVP alliances were not able to beat SIN even though they were a lot bigger. The amount of non-PVP players went down by a lot, meanwhile there are still quite a few good PVP players. In my opinon there is no alliance or even confeds that can beat TCol at the moment.

Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:

Also, not all the people who know how to pvp are in this offensive group. What if some of the old H? guys came to life to teach? It's all content. When Dlord vs Fairy happened, both alliances BLEW UP with activity, they were probably healthier then than they had been in years.

Last information i had is that some members of H? want to avoid war at all cost. I don't really think Dlord wants to fight either - they seem to be happy with faction play. Besides that, why should those alliances be forced to do PVP when they do not want to?


Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:

How many confeds does Ascn have? Will none of them step up and help? 

When did confeds ever work in a crisis? The usually only work for PVP alliances or to "pile on" an alliance.

Originally posted by Solanar Solanar wrote:

Because to me a fix that takes away a significant portion of the game isn't really a fix. It's ripe for exploit, no matter how they implement it.
Then let people exploit it, i have no issues with that. As long as players that dislike/hate PVP do not have to fight.


Edited by Thirion - 18 Jun 2021 at 16:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Solanar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 16:09
The same suggestion that happened during the great war. Have better diplomacy. If there really are so many more pve players than pvp, then they ought to be able to overwhelm the minority by banding together. 

Also, not all the people who know how to pvp are in this offensive group. What if some of the old H? guys came to life to teach? It's all content. When Dlord vs Fairy happened, both alliances BLEW UP with activity, they were probably healthier then than they had been in years. 

How many confeds does Ascn have? Will none of them step up and help? 

Because to me a fix that takes away a significant portion of the game isn't really a fix. It's ripe for exploit, no matter how they implement it. 
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