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Devs: In my opinion it is time to add opt-in PVP
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Thirion View Drop Down
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As i said i am done with this topic and not going to engange in discussions about PVP in this game again. I had to write something about the following thing though ;)

Originally posted by DeliciousJosh DeliciousJosh wrote:

One player in this game can accomplish a lot more by chatting and talking to other players, than in pretty much any other game that I know about.

I used to play multiple (German-)PVP browser games 15-20 years ago when i was young (when there was no P2W component back then, e.g. "Inselkampf", "Die Stämme"/"Tribal Wars" or "Second Home"). Those games usually had 30-50 active alliances (with 30-100 members each) and leader diplomacy was a really important part of the game. Otherwise you and your alliance got completely wiped out. Would suck if games like that do not exist anymore - i had a lot of fun playing them at the time.
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Good point Rill. It was a hefty discussion at the time. 
The region in TBL called Kingslands was the original (and only place) that the PvP-Free Zone would be implemented by the way.

Here's a little snippet from the FAQ about TBL

Q: What happened to the proposed PvP-free Protected Zone? 

As we have been developing the Broken Lands, we discussed in great length the possibility that the PvP-free zones might not be in the best interest of the game. On top of that, coding these zones was proving to be problematic (to say the least.) It’s also quite easy to avoid combat in Illyriad, or to survive combat with the help of your friends or alliance mates. We also paid attention to player discussions on the topic and, in the end, decided that leaving the PvP-free zones out of the new land was the best decision.

----
I also found this one quite interesting :D

Q: How do the new Quests work on the Broken Lands?

Soon after The Broken Lands launch (once players and cities have begun settling in) a new Quest arc will begin – a series of interlinked Quests which will run for several months. Individual players and Alliances will be presented with choices, where they can investigate, scout, thieve, attack, defend, and raid through an evolving story arc. This is not simply following instructions or doing what the Quest text tells you. It is about making choices. There will be little consequences and small rewards along the way, and then at the end the continent will be permanently changed by the players' combined actions. This is a new continent. The Quests allow you to explore it, and change it.

Cool! I think this should happen although it might be reserved for AoA now. I think all the time is going to developing that right now, which is how it should be; since the team is so small and I want to play AoA as well as Illyriad. 


Edited by DeliciousJosh - 20 Jun 2021 at 09:17

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Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:


I should have formulated that a lot better, my fault. The current plains meta in PVP is in my opinion an exploit of the system. Terraforms are an exploit. It probably was not intended by the devs initially but people found it the best way to play. Something similar would happen with any exploit regarding opt-out PVP. People would test it and find a way to use it. As long as it is in the rules and it is not completely broken i do not have any issues with it. Terraforms for example are even good for the game.


Just to follow up on this one, the Terraforming option was always intended by the DEVS to create a versatile playground and to alter various places on the map to your advantage as a player, should you choose to indulge in paying for TF's or doing it yourself. Making all the squares 7food around your towns might be a bit much, but it is still an intention by the creators of the game so you as a player can maximize your income taxes to an optimal level

Originally posted by <span id=userPro39 =msgsidepro= title=View Drop Down>DeliciousJosh</span> DeliciousJosh wrote:


The pvp bubble still exists.

Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

According to Grom it doesn't. And thats my problem.

Grom is a big player and has a lot of leverage to move around with his diplomatic relations and attitude. Still, he is not the only player in the PvP scene with that kind of leverage, he just uses it very intelligently and bargains/makes deals where he sees fit, to accommodate his members in TCol, so that they can have the maximum fun. 
One player in this game can accomplish a lot more by chatting and talking to other players, than in pretty much any other game that I know about. The fact still remains that the bubble exists, since otherwise we are all aware that the game would suffer tremendously, and we don't want that.

We need the PvP scene to survive though. Mainly because a lot of the income (prestige bought and sold) comes from that exact part of the game. Sure, builders too, but they usually save the gold up they are making to buy the prestige. The PvP players usually don't have the same luxury of having lots of gold income.



Edited by DeliciousJosh - 20 Jun 2021 at 09:06

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The original plan for The Broken Lands, prior to its release, was to have an area (Verten?) that would not have a PvP element. The developers fast-tracked the release of Broken Lands and left out that along with some other features. They left out the PvP-free zones because it was "quite easy to avoid combat", and decided that in combination with player feedback and difficulty in coding the PvP-free zones would not be released. It would be interesting to hear their thoughts on the issue five plus years later.
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PvP is not broken in Illy, the economy is, in the sense there’s not enough to fight about: we have unlimited resources, distributed game wide, with unlimited forever storage, and land claims mean very little. So people invent stupid reasons to fight (and post about them dishonestly) and that generates bad feelings. And the resulting boy-drama is a turn-off to players who might otherwise be interested in combat dynamics, planning, etc. but instead get labelled things like ‘PvE’ and excluded. Faction-play and tourneys are inviting to a broader set of players, and given some time may produce real shifts both in views and habits. If you want more players involved actively in PvP, make it more appealing. Not every player who thinks you’re a jerk is only interested in making saddles.


Opt-out solves no problem to me. I’d rather see a cap on storage and some resources redistribution.
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Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

I am sorry for my suggestion. I hereby retract it.


Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

I agree. I have some ideas i am going to post but got distracted a few days ago.

Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

To make it clear, i am not talking about any suggestions about PVP. I am going to stay out of PVP.

I was talking about some ideas/suggestions i have to make the game easier and better for new and small players.


I am sorry if i upset any player.

Edit: The discussion is finished from my side. The topic can be closed.


Edited by Thirion - 18 Jun 2021 at 22:53
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"Another option (though a lot harder to implement) would making some regions in Illy PVP and some non-PVP. For example make deserts PVP areas and everything else non-PVP. "
See: Solanar's post
 
"PVP players uniting to attack non-PVP players, forcing non-PVP players that hate PVP to engage in it and in the long run killing the non-PVP player base is in my opinion a problem that has no easy fix"
So instead your solution is to force PvP players to not play PvP and in the long run killing the PvP player base.
 
"Besides that, why should those alliances be forced to do PVP when they do not want to?"
Why should PvP alliances be forced to not do pvp?
 
"Why do not give the players the choice to play what they want?"
See above
 
You are entitled to your opinions Thirion, and we are entitled to point out the massive flaws in it.  "To make it clear, i am not talking about any suggestions about PVP. "  But what you are doing will effect PvP.  Everything is interconnected, and to call for a complete change to the fundamental state of the game simply because one alliance shifted who they are warring against is an overreaction of the highest order...and its imposing your will over everyone else.
 
Wartow: That would be great, if purely PvE people could be protected, but the problem is that a lot of the big PvE accounts are simply for supporting PvP beyond the 2 account rule.
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Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:

I agree. I have some ideas i am going to post but got distracted a few days ago.


To make it clear, i am not talking about any suggestions about PVP. I am going to stay out of PVP.

I was talking about some ideas/suggestions i have to make the game easier and better for new and small players.
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Originally posted by Wartow Wartow wrote:

Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:


I am sorry for my suggestion. I hereby retract it.


There are times within the game when the culture shifts and conversations like these help measure the current pulse of the game.  I wish more would contribute thoughts as an active forum is good for the game. 


I agree. I have some ideas i am going to post but got distracted a few days ago.
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Originally posted by Thirion Thirion wrote:


I am sorry for my suggestion. I hereby retract it.


There are times within the game when the culture shifts and conversations like these help measure the current pulse of the game.  I wish more would contribute thoughts as an active forum is good for the game. 
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