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jordigui 
Wordsmith
Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 157
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 Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 17:01 |
A liar? I would just say that this part of the negotiation art. TH
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tigre
New Poster
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Location: italy
Status: Offline
Points: 5
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 16:25 |
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Thx to GM luna, I finaly got back my login's, and now I can talk ^^
Many things have been said, but I didn' speak yet ...
The situation depicted by vermino is not quite corect, I feel Vermino initiate the struggle and the conflict ...
It's 2 years for me too, I play the game, I don't feel like an evil player, bashing others ... this game is good game play, fun, and the oportunity meet people ...
this is my version :
I decided to move all my city's after the new fishing rule went live, I selected carefully the new locations on the map ... I looked if the players around the knew locations had many sov square,
for Vermino it wasn't the case he didn't even claim all his adjacent square, so I never felt I will take away anything from him by moving 4,5 squares away, considering they was a river inbetween us, and 2 squares radius for a city is quite enough for sov ...
I occupied the square for 2 weeks, and then started claiming sov, when I was at lev4 sov, vermino started claiming 103/-709 ... Wha, that was a surprise, this was 3,5 squares away from his city ... far away, as he had still free squares to claim adjecent to his city ! why should he do that ? My guess is when he saw my claim on the square, he decided he didn't want anyneigbours ... I felt this could be a problem for future, and when time would have been ripe, I would have talked with him on that ... Anyway, I reach lev 5 sov and exodus my city, I arrive, and things get much worse ... I receive IGM from Godestroyer and vermino and the fact that I was disturbing neigbourhood ... But I was disturbing only the twisted mind of Vermino ... he intimidate me with menace, and ask me to leave ... They was enough space for both of us, I didn't find that fair at all ... during my 5 days freeze after exodus, Vermino claimed two other squares, 104/-708 adjacent to my new city 4,5 away from his and 106/-708, 5.5 squares away from his !!! these are good food squares, he wanted clearly to cut my growing possibility and put pressure on me ... These squares are to far away from him, to be useful for his city ! this was a "casus belli", I have no other word, this is what I call "an act of war", claiming adjacent squares just to make understand you are not welcome is like hitting you ... The last words of vermino, where "don't chalenge me on these squares" ... 2 weeks latter, I decided to claim them .. then he attaked my claimers .. and then the rest of the story you know about ... we decided to duel ..
But when vermino ask terms of surender, I said, move your city and give me 100 milion stuff .. he said that he could just only have 20 million gold, the poor guy had no money ... so finaly, we agreed on 50 million and his city would stay ...
then by magic, I receive the report on one of his other city, over 200k of each adv resource and 25 million gold ... when vermino said he had dificulty to have 20million, can you belive that !! I was angry, and asked him 100k of all his adv resource, and the 25 million of his city .. of course vermino did not accept ...
So, what do you think guys ?
isn't this a fair figth agreed inbetweem 2 players, from wich one is a liar !!!
can I raze his city ? must I ask aprovation from GC ?
thx for reading
tigre
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Raatalagk
Wordsmith
Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 154
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 02:22 |
I would prefer to continue this without being gawked at. ;)
IGM sent, Vermino.
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Vermino
New Poster
Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 15
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 01:12 |
jordigui: Thanks for your proposal. I would have accepted it at any time before or after the attacks, although the chain of events began with the initial aggressive moves by Tigre. Unluckily, I'm not dealing with someone reasonable as you are.
 Raatalagk wrote:
As a separate issue, I am willing to discuss with you, privately, your problem with tigre's nearby city. These kinds of discussion are relatively commonplace in Illy. We can negotiate as if none of this fighting ever happened---as if you just sent me a mail yesterday saying, "Hey, I just realized this guy tigre settled too close to me. I know it's been a couple of months but I'm really upset by this." You have my word that I will negotiate with you as I would anyone else who came to me with an analogous grievance. Of course, if you accept my offer only to find that I have sneakily double-crossed you, you can always return to the public forum to reveal me for a liar.
I assure you, however, that I am no liar. |
Ok, I sent you an in-game message, although we can discuss it here if you prefer. I have no hopes but talking can't do harm. My 19k town is as good as gone, but I'm intrigued on what you have to say. Let's see if you have something that might work or this is just public relations.
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Kale
Greenhorn
Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 58
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 01:08 |
Vermino, I would like to come at this again with the hopes that everyone has cooled down somewhat. I am trying to be measured and diplomatic, here, but there's not much for me to work with while your only professed intention is to finance the downfall of our entire alliance.
First off, let me say that there is no plan to raze all of your cities, nor was there ever such a plan. I don't know why you keep claiming such things. Personally, I had hoped this situation would be resolved before the current siege could cause much damage, but with all this commotion, that has proven difficult.
Second, let me reiterate a point I have already made, and that was put more succinctly by invictusa: for reasons good or bad, you agreed to the duel, so you must accept the consequences. That is just the way the world works.
Finally, let me address the other elephant in the room here, namely your indignation that tigre settled so close to you to begin with. Two things need to be said:
(a) I would be upset too if someone settled that close to me without asking first. In particular, tigre should have asked first. So let me offer you my personal apology for that infraction.
(b) The situation would have been a lot easier to deal with if mediation had been attempted WAY back when tigre first arrived on the scene. Instead, the first time anyone in BSH heard any of these complaints from you was months after the fact, and worse, in the midst of your sending waves of diplo attacks at our member. You met tigre's lack of consideration with hotheadedness, and predictably, the result is a mess.
Now, in light of the fact that you agreed to the duel, I still stand by my earlier proposal that you and tigre revert to the original agreement, and you pay him 50M in gold or equivalent resources. It's not nothing, but it's not backbreaking either, especially for you.
As a separate issue, I am willing to discuss with you, privately, your problem with tigre's nearby city. These kinds of discussion are relatively commonplace in Illy. We can negotiate as if none of this fighting ever happened---as if you just sent me a mail yesterday saying, "Hey, I just realized this guy tigre settled too close to me. I know it's been a couple of months but I'm really upset by this." You have my word that I will negotiate with you as I would anyone else who came to me with an analogous grievance. Of course, if you accept my offer only to find that I have sneakily double-crossed you, you can always return to the public forum to reveal me for a liar.
I assure you, however, that I am no liar.
Spot on Brother.
Edited by Kale - 30 Aug 2012 at 01:10
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jordigui
Wordsmith
Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 157
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 00:47 |
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Hi, I may sound silly, but if everyone was here so good as they claim to be, a peaceful solution could be achieved.
I believe it should include these 2 points:
1. Tigre's city moving away from the square at 4.5 squares from the city of Vermino. and that square or close ones not bein occupied by Vermino or other members of his alliance. As it seems clearly accepted that this short distance may be unacceptable, even by members of his alliance.
2. Vermino to pay a compensation to Tigre. I would say 50, or 100 million gold, at max.
I also believe that if a peaceful solution is not reached, both sides could expect larger costs (including Tigre's city).
If both parts do not think this proposal is so incoherent, you could start negotiating with this as a basis.
Cheers,
TH
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Raatalagk
Wordsmith
Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 154
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 00:31 |
Vermino wrote:
invictusa wrote:
Apologies if I am missing the bigger point here. If you agree (and especially if you initiate the challenge), to a duel, and after each opponent takes ten steps, turns, and fires; you lose much more face by claiming that the duel was unfair in the first place than if you just accept your losses, learn from your mistakes, and move on.I think any moral high ground you before had was lost to any consequences of this conflict you agreed to enter with Tigre, unless there was some agreed upon rules of engagement. Tigre could be asking a lot more from you I think, and would be his/her right. |
Apologies accepted. The biggest point is not the duel or Tigre razing my cities, which he will do. The two main points are: - Tigre initiated the conflict taking by force what was mine and had never been his. His demeanor since the beginning of the situation has been despicable. Nobody moves 4.5 squares from another town without expecting a conflict. I even let him stay, fool me, but he wanted everything.
- Most importantly, I was accepting his unreasonable conditions (since he started all this and I shouldn't pay reparations at all on top of losing the sov.) but when he learned I could afford more, he tried to milk me after setting up his own conditions which I was accepting.
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Vermino, I would like to come at this again with the hopes that everyone has cooled down somewhat. I am trying to be measured and diplomatic, here, but there's not much for me to work with while your only professed intention is to finance the downfall of our entire alliance.
First off, let me say that there is no plan to raze all of your cities, nor was there ever such a plan. I don't know why you keep claiming such things. Personally, I had hoped this situation would be resolved before the current siege could cause much damage, but with all this commotion, that has proven difficult.
Second, let me reiterate a point I have already made, and that was put more succinctly by invictusa: for reasons good or bad, you agreed to the duel, so you must accept the consequences. That is just the way the world works.
Finally, let me address the other elephant in the room here, namely your indignation that tigre settled so close to you to begin with. Two things need to be said:
(a) I would be upset too if someone settled that close to me without asking first. In particular, tigre should have asked first. So let me offer you my personal apology for that infraction.
(b) The situation would have been a lot easier to deal with if mediation had been attempted WAY back when tigre first arrived on the scene. Instead, the first time anyone in BSH heard any of these complaints from you was months after the fact, and worse, in the midst of your sending waves of diplo attacks at our member. You met tigre's lack of consideration with hotheadedness, and predictably, the result is a mess.
Now, in light of the fact that you agreed to the duel, I still stand by my earlier proposal that you and tigre revert to the original agreement, and you pay him 50M in gold or equivalent resources. It's not nothing, but it's not backbreaking either, especially for you.
As a separate issue, I am willing to discuss with you, privately, your problem with tigre's nearby city. These kinds of discussion are relatively commonplace in Illy. We can negotiate as if none of this fighting ever happened---as if you just sent me a mail yesterday saying, "Hey, I just realized this guy tigre settled too close to me. I know it's been a couple of months but I'm really upset by this." You have my word that I will negotiate with you as I would anyone else who came to me with an analogous grievance. Of course, if you accept my offer only to find that I have sneakily double-crossed you, you can always return to the public forum to reveal me for a liar.
I assure you, however, that I am no liar.
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 00:20 |
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funny stuff, really.
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bansisdead
Postmaster
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 609
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Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 23:33 |
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+ 10 man points to invictusa.
spot on.
Edited by bansisdead - 29 Aug 2012 at 23:33
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The_Dude
Postmaster General
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 23:06 |
Bonaparta wrote:
****bul·ly 1 n. pl. bul·lies1. A person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people. 2. A hired ruffian; a thug. 3. A pimp. 4. Archaic A fine person. 5. Archaic A sweetheart.
****
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I never knew the Pimp context. So when someone is said to be bullying, they might be thinking they are being "pimping" which I understand in current jargon is a good thing. 
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