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Topic ClosedCrime & Punishment & Orcs (a.k.a. BSH)
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Points: 1857 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 05:51
Originally posted by Hadus Hadus wrote:



Originally posted by Binky the Berserker Binky the Berserker wrote:

wow so many people involved in one duel. Shouldn't people let them sort things out themselves? I can't believe all of you really know all details on the subject, so why judge any side? Where 2 fight, 2 are guilty (my grandma used to say that and you know, grandma knows best). The more I read about this subject the more I'm convinced both sides made their mistakes. Give them a chance to solve things.
They brought it to the forum (or at least one of them did), so it is expected that people will chime in. That being said, you're right, it is for them and them alone to resolve, we can't make their minds for them.


What we are witnessing is a strategy. How successful it is is somewhat subjective. It is true that if the OP was allowed to do as he pleased (whether it be expelling his adversary or what have you) this strategy would have tangible success but the actual objective, in my opinion is to limit damage, which is much more difficult to measure.

edited to add:
I know my comments are off topic but I just can't resist adding: On a personal note, I'd like to point out how ironic it is that the only member of Aesir to successfully siege and raze a TLR town in their self proclaimed crusade is now in the hot seat. Interesting that once the shoe is on the other foot, things seem.... somehow different, hmm?


Edited by abstractdream - 31 Aug 2012 at 06:43
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Jane DarkMagic View Drop Down
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Points: 554 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 05:34
I did read the whole thread.  It's a juicy one.
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Points: 154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 05:18
Jane, if you read the whole thread, you'll see that's not what we're doing at all. This would have been resolved very differently if it had been handled in a calm and timely fashion. Instead, we're months late and there's been a duel in the meantime. And all this has been discussed ad nauseam.

Vermino, I offered for tigre to lift his siege and immediately cease all hostilities, and for you two to work on hammering out a sov agreement up front stipulating who would have claim to which tiles. Actually my offer was very similar to what Malph proposed above. I even offered to ask tigre to lift his siege before any details were settled (and so, in effect, before you had to commit to anything), in an attempt to mitigate the damage to your city. But you refused to accept any proposal I made unless it involved tigre's exodus. To say that my talk was cheap and that my best offer was to exodus your city is a ludicrous distortion of our discussion, which I thought had been undertaken in good faith. It's not surprising that I couldn't negotiate with you given that you weren't willing to budge an inch on any front.
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Jane DarkMagic View Drop Down
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Points: 554 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 04:43
I can't believe Tigre's alliance is supporting his claim.  Seems diplomatically unwise to make such a precedent.  Your saying anyone can settle 4 squares from BSH members and start claiming all the sov they want.
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Points: 15 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 02:43
Tigre: I will say nothing about your post. You have given a fine picture of yourself.
 
I have indeed handled this poorly. I shouldn't have even accepted Raatagalk talks proposal in this thread. It was all cheap talk and he was clearly doing it for public relations and having me on. His best offer was that I exodus my city, which is currently 660 pop down from 19000 and good for nothing, so Tigre keeps every sov square, expelling me from the location after being there more than a year before him. 
As for the duel, I should never have accepted it either, because I was right in my claims from any point of view, and yes, the spots were also profitable as Salararius ans Silent/Steadfast have demonstrated.
 
In any case, I consider the duel finished the moment I accepted Tigre's winning conditions and then he tried to extort me. Tigre: you won, but from the moment I surrendered accepting your conditions and you kept on massacring me it's overkill.
 
I have already received some messages from people who find this behavior from Tigre and BSH outrageous. It's late for me but if someone else wants to prevent this from happening to other BSH victims, please send me an IGM. I stand by what I said on my first post. 
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Brids17 View Drop Down
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Points: 1483 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 23:50
Originally posted by Rorgash Rorgash wrote:

considering that Tigre claimed it first your last statement is not correct, but i guess my math was abit off yes. so it goes even on food.


Tigre didn't claim it first, he moved into his area and then counter claimed it. Even Tigre admitted this. Have you even bothered to read the thread or talk to your own alliance member about this?
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Points: 894 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 23:17
considering that Tigre claimed it first your last statement is not correct, but i guess my math was abit off yes. so it goes even on food.

oh well Vermino asked for a dual and he got it, no need to talk about this anymore :)


Edited by Rorgash - 30 Aug 2012 at 23:18
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Salararius View Drop Down
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Points: 519 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 23:00
Originally posted by Rorgash Rorgash wrote:

If one would look at the map one would know pretty quickly why that sov holds no value to anyone but Tigre, its much cheaper for Vermino to buy food then try to hold sov there.

That spot is 3.6 from Vermino's city, which means sov V would cost 1,800 gold / hour.  Sov at that square would return 15% food at sov V.  Since Vermino's city is a 5 food plot city the most the distant square can increase food production by is 1,510.5 food / hour.  That's equal to paying 1.19 gold / food.  Where can you buy food constantly and consistently 24/7 at 1.19 gold?

To compare, the 5 food squares 1.4 from Vermino's city return food at about 1.4 gold / food, which is clearly worse.  By the declaration made, BSH should not mind if anyone sovs 5 food squares 1.4 or further from their 5 food plot cities because BSH can buy food cheaper than that?

Maybe I screwed up the math but I think that declaration stinks.  It's not cheaper to buy food, that's a good sov spot for Vermino that Tigre took.
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Points: 553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 22:43
I have taken a look at the situation Rorgash, long before posting the above comment, and I believe that the sov still would have been useful for Vermino to have.  The cost in gold would be around 500 per level for two of them and and around 700 per level for one.  I have known people to claim lower sov levels that are more distant than that in order to make their city large, and as for gold, for a city of around 25k pop the bonus given in gold outweighs the cost in gold by quite a bit.  Even if he didn't desire for the sov to be useful to him in gold, the combined food bonus (44%) is a significant one.  

As for taking sides, I believe it is my business to side with Vermino as he is currently in my alliance. Perhaps you are the one who should do his homework more often.  Or maybe it's just that you folks in BSH do things differently.  




Edited by Silent/Steadfast - 30 Aug 2012 at 22:45
"Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM)
"SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM)
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Hadus View Drop Down
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Points: 545 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 22:32
Originally posted by Binky the Berserker Binky the Berserker wrote:

wow so many people involved in one duel. Shouldn't people let them sort things out themselves? I can't believe all of you really know all details on the subject, so why judge any side? Where 2 fight, 2 are guilty (my grandma used to say that and you know, grandma knows best). The more I read about this subject the more I'm convinced both sides made their mistakes. Give them a chance to solve things.
They brought it to the forum (or at least one of them did), so it is expected that people will chime in. That being said, you're right, it is for them and them alone to resolve, we can't make their minds for them.

Edited by Hadus - 30 Aug 2012 at 22:33
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