Court of Petitioners |
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Ten Kulch
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Joined: 20 Jan 2017 Location: Fellandire Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 23:57 |
I have played this game for six years. Most people capturing cities prefer completed research, which is available in established cities, such as those afforded by established inactive or abandoned accounts. I also helped to run a training alliance for quite a while. During that time, I came into contact with many new players. Nobody ever complained about having cities seized by other players, nor did anyone even mention having heard of that happening. There is no real incentive and considerable downside (in the form of community retaliation), so it isn't really done. I cannot conclusively prove the absence of something with 100% certainty. That is logically impossible. However, given my knowledge of the game, new players, and the community, I feel confident saying that the situation you propose is a very rare occurrence, if indeed it happens at all. Due to the way that logic works, you can much more easily prove a positive assertion. You are the one in a position to disprove my perception, since offering actual evidence that a new player was attacked to sieze their city would be an actual data point. |
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Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Emerson
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Joined: 30 Mar 2018 Location: Seattle WA - US Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 23:38 |
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Where did I ask for power, Ten Kulch? Once again, I am attacked but no constructive ideas are given.
You assume that I feel bullied, yet I never said that. I clarified my situation above: I am representing the small players and alliances that do feel bullied. You ask me for specifics but give none of your own. Nobody steals cities from newer, active players? How do you know? Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't make it fact. However, I DID see those posts in GC about a month or so ago. Just because I can't recall WHO posted them, that means I'm lying? You make a lot of assumptions about me and my situation. Instead of ripping me apart, how about some nice, positive constructive ideas? Obviously you don't agree with mine, so what would be your solution? Status quo? Well, that works for you. If you queried every player in Illyriad, I'm betting you get a different answer.
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Ten Kulch
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Joined: 20 Jan 2017 Location: Fellandire Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 23:09 |
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This entire argument has crossed into the absurd. Emerson, the powerful alliances are not obligated to give you power simply because you think you should have it. There are many accepted customs in Illyriad. Small players and new players are very rarely attacked without a reason. The fact that you have provided no details about your situation--other than that you feel "bullied"--makes me think that your mouth wrote some checks that your armies can't cash. Just the way you accused people of supporting bullying, without even telling us who the bullies are, rather supports that assumption.
Nobody steals cities from newer, active players. There are hundreds of high quality inactive and abandoned cities scattered across the map. Your entire vague explanation rings false. |
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Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Emerson
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Joined: 30 Mar 2018 Location: Seattle WA - US Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 22:58 |
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The situation with SIN was within the context of the "old" rules that can be found in the forum's dusty archives. A player attacked an alliance member, unprovoked, and the alliance retaliated and punished the offender. That was convention and should have been an end to it.
The offender apparently bitched about it and SIN attacked the alliance. Fair? No. But it happened, it's over with. Should it have happened? Probably not, but who does the alliance go to when the leadership of SIN refused to even acknowledge the situation? Hence my point. Ruarc's point about laws requiring enforcement is valid. But when there are no laws and "convention" is ignored or laughed at, then what? I put forth an idea - only an idea. No hard and fast "rules", nothing like that. If the Devs consider it, great. If not, we play on. However, it cannot be ignored that the game has changed a lot since 2012, 2014, 2015, etc. I just started 10 months ago and the game has morphed a bit since then. Newbies are looking at the forum for insight and are told to chat in GC for help. Yet, I have witnessed exchanges about how the tournaments are boring, they don't come often enough and how some have bragged about waiting for the protective rainbow to come off a newbie so they can grab their city. Is this what everybody really wants? Have I witnessed this happening? No. But the idea that someone would actually post something like that in GC and his/her friends just laughed it off is unsettling. I am representing the small players, the players that want to play the game in peace. I'm probably large enough to take care of myself. But we have members in our alliance with less than 3 cities and 5K population that are not interested in PvP. Our alliance cannot help them if they are attacked - we couldn't defend an attack by a choirboy at this time. The thing is, they are relying on the conventions established years ago and finding, to their detriment, that the older, larger players no longer adhere to those conventions that don't directly benefit them. So, where is the redress? Everyone is criticizing my idea, yet I don't see any constructive arguments being put forward. How about trying to add to the narrative in a positive way instead of just tearing me down? I'm open to suggestions and maybe, just maybe, we can all come up with a consensus idea that we can put to the Devs.
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WAFFLES
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Joined: 22 Mar 2018 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 22:15 |
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I have it on good authority this involves SIN. Apparently an alliance reacted a little roughly against a very small players indiscretions and SIN retaliated for the smaller player. Now that alliance is crying foul.
In regards to Ruarc’s comments, I agree with his points. Laws require a means of enforcement. Edited by WAFFLES - 03 Apr 2018 at 22:16 |
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Ruarc
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Joined: 04 Dec 2015 Status: Offline Points: 61 |
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Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 21:46 |
Three brief points and an overall comment: 1. You always need a better argument than 'why not?'. 2. What you're suggesting isn't any different from the current situation: those with power dictate the 'laws' of the game. Power comes in many forms - diplomacy, resources, activity - but the idea that you can dictate the 'laws' of the game without that power, or that people will give you that power because it makes sense or is fair, is naive. 3. I think you shot yourself in the foot by using the word 'law'. You'd have had a far better chance of making a relatable argument to the current meta if you stuck to a more accurate phase like 'conventions' and referenced things like the 10 square rule and not attacking new players, or made specific comment as to what you wanted to have happen within the new meta. Basing your argument on something concrete is better than offering a vague new contraption with prickly words like 'law' to replace tried and tested methods of diplomacy and power. On a general note - I assume that what you're actually getting at has something to do with land claims? Some alliances have been more accommodating in that than others, but it's difficult to comment on any particular situation without specifics. Personally I think this is a particularly interesting time to be playing the game. Maybe not as interesting as the first land claims in the BL (heady days indeed!) but interesting nonetheless. Some long-established notions no longer have the power behind them that they once did. That change is testimony to the fact that Illyriad is still an evolving and active game, and that's a good thing irrespective of the outcome of that change.
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Hyde
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Joined: 19 Dec 2017 Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 21:32 |
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People play illy to have freedom and "live out a fantasy" whether it is a rich crafter, huge warlord, or magnificent empire builder. Some come to socialise, or to help people.
For someone to add in real life restrictions such as a "court" on what people can or can't do, it ruins the escapism that the game provides. It would drive more people away than make people happy. |
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WAFFLES
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Joined: 22 Mar 2018 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 21:19 |
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Emerson you have 7 cities and around 67k pop. I am wondering how you are being “bullied”. I don’t know your specific gaming style. Maybe being more active and building troops might keep other players from messing with you. I see you are in a Trader alliance. Those alliances usually have nice things. Like gold. Banks have lots of money. They also have guards, alarm systems, and vaults. Have you gone to your allies for help?
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Emerson
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Joined: 30 Mar 2018 Location: Seattle WA - US Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 20:52 |
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About what I figured. You older players don't want to give up any power so you can continue to lord it over the newer, smaller players.
This is precisely why a court is needed. You that are attacking me here are the same types attacking the smaller, mostly defenseless players and alliances. Maybe not you, specifically, but you know them - they are your friends that have been playing for years right along with you. They like things just the way they are because they can get away with whatever they want. Fine - be that way. It's a childish attitude to claim this is a sandbox and I'm whining. This is the kind of garbage I see in GC and what I was referring to in my post. Thank you for clearing that up. The consensus I have been getting in my message box (and there are a lot of them) is this idea is a good one but the older players will ridicule me for it (they nailed that one) and others that have basically given up, quit their alliance and are waiting to be wiped out by a player that wants their cities. Sad. If beating up on smaller players is your thing, why not go play Age of Empires, Civilization or Mortal Kombat? Why can't we have a semblance of law in Illyriad? What would be the harm? Sure, it changes strategies and, maybe, a little of the balance of power. Would that really be so bad? Let the insults and ridiculing start now.
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The Reaper
Greenhorn
Joined: 03 Jun 2015 Location: Washington Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Posted: 02 Apr 2018 at 21:57 |
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Sounds like a lot of whining. This can't be said enough, you play a sandbox game. With many a different playstyle. Welcome to the Sandbox. Now commence the continuous whining.
-Drax The Destroyer
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