Play Now Login Create Account
illyriad
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Cost efficiency in units
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedCost efficiency in units
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Innoble View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 141 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cost efficiency in units
    Posted: 16 Jul 2012 at 13:33
Does your experience include existential combat?  Smile  Because I suspect if you ever experienced sustain combat against folks intent on killing you, firepower production would be a prime concern to you.

Very true. And no, noone has been wanting to wipe me out. It is not hard to imagine what you would be training though.

Innoble, we all have our own experiences that form our individual opinions.  To that extent, yes, we all have limited views.

This is exactly my point. I know many players are in different situations so I would never say: "Only training time is important" or "only upkeep is important". That is what I mean by limited view. You seem to agree with me 100%.


Back to Top
Gilthoniel View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Location: Cuiviénen
Status: Offline
Points: 211 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2012 at 10:27
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

Originally posted by Innoble Innoble wrote:


Anyone who claims only one factor is important has a limited view on things.
LOL 

Innoble, we all have our own experiences that form our individual opinions.  To that extent, yes, we all have limited views.

Does your experience include existential combat?  Smile  Because I suspect if you ever experienced sustain combat against folks intent on killing you, firepower production would be a prime concern to you.

However, if you place a priority on a different aspect of Illy military system, then, of course, you will opt accordingly.  Because I, or any other player, choose a different priority does NOT mean that our views are _limited_.  It simply means we have a different priority for our military.

This is a wonderful aspect of Illy.  So many trade-offs.  No perfect answer.  No perfect unit.  No single path to success.  No definition of success beyond each player's unique definition.
That is the wonder of Illy summed up in one sentence. Well done!
 
Of course, cost efficiency is not the only factor to be taken into account. In this game the kind and type of unit required may be dictated by the terrain, biome and other factors.... my two penneth.
Back to Top
The_Dude View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General


Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2012 at 03:19
Originally posted by Innoble Innoble wrote:


Anyone who claims only one factor is important has a limited view on things.
LOL 

Innoble, we all have our own experiences that form our individual opinions.  To that extent, yes, we all have limited views.

Does your experience include existential combat?  Smile  Because I suspect if you ever experienced sustain combat against folks intent on killing you, firepower production would be a prime concern to you.

However, if you place a priority on a different aspect of Illy military system, then, of course, you will opt accordingly.  Because I, or any other player, choose a different priority does NOT mean that our views are _limited_.  It simply means we have a different priority for our military.

This is a wonderful aspect of Illy.  So many trade-offs.  No perfect answer.  No perfect unit.  No single path to success.  No definition of success beyond each player's unique definition.
Back to Top
twilights View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster
Avatar

Joined: 21 May 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 915 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2012 at 21:44
i was wondering if any has factored in cost relative to losses when used by different types and levels of commanders, for instance......using a t2 commander when using t1 troops to kill rats..compare to using a t1 commander doing the same function...or single commander compare to multiple commanders.....cost is usually related to replacements unless u are stockpiling them for tournaments..i have a formula i use but it doesnt take in account of cost of replacement just the min amount of troops for winning
Back to Top
Innoble View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 141 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2012 at 13:10
Some of the posters in this thread make things out to be simple when they're not. Personally I find all three of the following: upkeep, production time and production cost important, depending on circumstances.

I have +100% production speed in almost all my cities. That means I have a huge amount of production cost. I have all cities producing troops 24/7. If I only make T2 units, I simply can't afford it. It's too expensive.

So I make a combination of T2 and T1. The T1 I kill on rats, The T2 slowly build up, to use in tournaments, wars etc. They have lower upkeep for their strength, so they are effective in the long term. In short:

-Production time is a limiting factor for those without production sov and for those who are currently running a tournament with a lot of stored advanced resources. This leads to use of T2

-Production cost is a limiting factor for those with high production sov. This leads to use of T1

-Upkeep is a limiting factor when there is a long time between wars and tournaments. It is hard to use all your troops on NPC hits when there aren't many good targets around. This leads to use of T2.

Anyone who claims only one factor is important has a limited view on things.
Back to Top
God Of Atheism View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 10 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 19:47
Get well soon.

I think that in the long run, upkeep is the only relevant measure.

In the medium run, defense is probably more important than attack.

In the short run, armies created only for attacking to give xp to a commander, build costs per attack power come into play.
Back to Top
LordOfTheSwamp View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 23 May 2011
Location: Swamp of Fyrgis
Status: Offline
Points: 481 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 18:28
Originally posted by Salararius Salararius wrote:

The following PDF

... has melted my mind! Thank you! Clap
"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
Back to Top
Salararius View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster
Avatar

Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 519 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 17:05
The following PDF shows comparisons of all units (offense/defense) over all terrains for three different comparison types:

attack vs defense
attack/gold upkeep vs defense/gold upkeep
attack * build rate vs defense * build rate

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B46l7avI4cJvelFueXlqMGlMQnc

Obviously, there are a lot of numbers here and it would take quite a mind to encapsulate all the information.  Let alone what isn't taken into account:

City Walls
Sovereignty Build Rate Increases
T2 Buildings Gold Upkeep Decreases

There might be more, I have pneumonia now and am not up to more thought on this.
Back to Top
Thes Hunter View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 129 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 03:21
Axar your logic is quite intriguing, and you have given me much to ponder.

However, please note the unit stats listed on the Arcanum differ from the ones listed on the Illyriad site:  http://www.illyriad.co.uk/GameInformation/Races/Dwarves/UnitStats

If the maintainers of the Arcanum have updated their lists, this may no longer be true. Smile

Because I have ran into discrepancies in the past, I've been basing my plans on the information on the Illyriad site. Though if anyone has noticed any differences between what is posted on the Illyriad site, and what they are seeing in game, I would love to know. 

Axar, please keep up the excellent and interesting posts, I can't wait to read more of your thoughts.
Back to Top
Anjire View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster
Avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 688 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2012 at 18:57
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApL1rFFXeNNtdGtvMV9iVnNCWmlfTWQwcDQxenZnQnc#gid=6

Created by Fluffeh explores a number of different ratings for the various units.  Unfortunately, the elf unit sheet is messed up at this time. 

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.