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belargyle View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2012 at 20:32
I don't care what part comes next.. just let the dwarf eat!
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Rill View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2012 at 17:46
Originally posted by HATHALDIR HATHALDIR wrote:

Okay, are we all done with the soup course?
Can we please move on to the entree?

I believe a bird or poultry course would be traditional at some point.

/me would like to suggest those who are tempted should first look up the meaning of the American colloquialism "eat Crow."

Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2012 at 17:15
Originally posted by HATHALDIR HATHALDIR wrote:

Okay, are we all done with the soup course?
Can we please move on to the entree?


LMAO!

I do love Hath's sense of humour...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2012 at 16:41
Originally posted by Magnifico G Magnifico G wrote:

Congratulations to Consone for handling this situation well. I am surprised that an ordinary member of another alliance would publically try to persisitently pin down Consone on fictional scenarios about how an alliance may or may not act in future.

In my humble opinion sunstorm, whether intentionally or not, came as close to causing a major incident as you can without making open accusations, Consone members remained calm in the face of his inquisition which gives them credit in the eyes of the community...
 
...therefore I suspect that we have not heard the last of this yet...indeed I hear the sounds of bellows puffing and weapons being sharpened on the grind stone...
 
Therefore I say this to Consone in general and INVICTUS in particular...keep your Counsel close...check whose alt is friendly with whom...and prepare for that defensive war that you say you are not going to fight....because you may have to
What good would Consone be if they couldn't handle questions raised?  I feel I have done them no harm - rather, they were pressed to meet possible opposition (as some have seen my posts) and they have come out strong.  If this had been a military minded Confederation (which I wholeheartedly believe it is not), then you believe my questions on Consone's military stance would have started a war (as you even pointed out)?  I feel sad for you....

Yes, they did remain calm and level headed.  That was part of what I wanted to see.  Do you remember in my first several posts - I questioned if members might act rashly under stress and I asked if Consone would back them.  This is not to say that I was "testing" them; however, had it been a test they would have passed with flying colors. Wink

Edit: Corrected formatting


Edited by SunStorm - 18 Sep 2012 at 17:03
"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2012 at 15:56
Okay, are we all done with the soup course?
Can we please move on to the entree?
There's worse blokes than me!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2012 at 13:54
Originally posted by Magnifico G Magnifico G wrote:

Congratulations to Consone for handling this situation well. I am surprised that an ordinary member of another alliance would publically try to persisitently pin down Consone on fictional scenarios about how an alliance may or may not act in future.  
 
In my humble opinion sunstorm, whether intentionally or not, came as close to causing a major incident as you can without making open accusations, Consone members remained calm in the face of his inquisition which gives them credit in the eyes of the community...
 
...however as Lord Kilotov - Highward of the longestablished and even longer bearded Dlords - is fond of reminding us... "right is not right , might is right"...
 
...therefore I suspect that we have not heard the last of this yet...indeed I hear the sounds of bellows puffing and weapons being sharpened on the grind stone...
 
 
Therefore I say this to Consone in general and INVICTUS in particular...keep your Counsel close...check whose alt is friendly with whom...and prepare for that defensive war that you say you are not going to fight....because you may have to

I silently read all the thread and this last message made me smile.

"Inquisition...." "causing a major incident ...."
Really? WOW

I think SunStorm questions, and the resulting discussion, and some of the reply, especially Jasche last one, were interesting, and helped a lot Consone, in my humble opinion.

Fixing your scope, make it clear to the rest (and to yourself) is a precious step in any new "group", especially a large and various one as Consone is. Identity, knowledge of your scope, common intent, clear set of rules for major events, are important to know, both for you and for the others who look at you. 

Actions, not words set what you are, and we will see in the future your actions. 
But this discussion surely helped you to make a step in the right direction. 

So, I think you should thank SunStorm, this time, not growl at him... ;-)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2012 at 13:01
Congratulations to Consone for handling this situation well. I am surprised that an ordinary member of another alliance would publically try to persisitently pin down Consone on fictional scenarios about how an alliance may or may not act in future.  
 
In my humble opinion sunstorm, whether intentionally or not, came as close to causing a major incident as you can without making open accusations, Consone members remained calm in the face of his inquisition which gives them credit in the eyes of the community...
 
...however as Lord Kilotov - Highward of the longestablished and even longer bearded Dlords - is fond of reminding us... "right is not right , might is right"...
 
...therefore I suspect that we have not heard the last of this yet...indeed I hear the sounds of bellows puffing and weapons being sharpened on the grind stone...
 
 
Therefore I say this to Consone in general and INVICTUS in particular...keep your Counsel close...check whose alt is friendly with whom...and prepare for that defensive war that you say you are not going to fight....because you may have to


Edited by Magnifico G - 18 Sep 2012 at 13:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2012 at 05:56
Originally posted by SunStorm SunStorm wrote:

 

Questions I feel are sufficiently resolved:  
  • Consone was not started up as a response to the razing of an inactive player's city (which I, and possibly others, thought it was).  (again, I am two months too late on this)
  • Alliances/players will continue to function and work out their own problems among the other alliances/players - Consone will not be stepping in to meddle or dictate how others should play.
  • Consone will strive to defensively (not aggressively) help the weaker alliances and players when they are clearly and blatantly being oppressed by others.
  • None of the alliances in the Consone Confederation are aggressive by nature.
  • This is not a new millitary super-power which will rise up at times or turmoil in the game and attempt to right every wrong and maintain justice.
  • Actions made rashly by individuals and alliances within the Consone Confederation will be handled on a case-to-case basis and Consone will remain entirely neutral if the individual or alliance is found to be at fault.  (That is, they will not continue to aid and defend someone that is guilty of war crimes.)
  • Consone has not tainted the Illyriad water supply with a mind controlling substance.




I myself believe you have a clear handle on it so far my dear Sunny : )

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2012 at 01:21
Jasche,

Thank you for response.  I never thought of this Confederation as a military alliance, but my concerns have been regarding Consone's military stance on future Illy politics. In my posts I laid out a few reasons why I feel this would be problematic  - that is, if Consone were ever to engage in any military activity (as a large conglomerate of 11+ alliances acting as one body).  I also asked if there will be undue bias to alliances under the Consone umbrella even if they are in the wrong on a major Illy issue.  Furthermore, I posted several points that I felt I was beginning to understand regarding this Confederation.  I will repost the major ones below because I was seeking confirmation or modification.  
Originally posted by SunStorm SunStorm wrote:

  • Alliances/players will continue to function and work out their own problems among the other alliances/players - Consone will not be stepping in to meddle or dictate how others should play.
  • Consone will strive to defensively (not aggressively) help the weaker alliances and players when they are clearly and blatantly being oppressed by others.
  • Actions made rashly by individuals and alliances within the Consone Confederation will be handled on a case-to-case basis and Consone will remain entirely neutral if the individual or alliance is found to be at fault.  (That is, they will not continue to aid and defend someone that is guilty of war crimes.)
I appreciate your willingness to address this matter, and I apologize for the hard feelings it has stirred.  I wouldn't expect these 11+ alliances to have laid out plans for how to deal with every situation, but I was hoping that some of these scenairos and examples would press this Confederation to address real issued before they ever arise.

I truly wish you all the best.
"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2012 at 00:50

Dear All,

It seems that a lot of discussion and view point has been provoked recently and I thought it only right that I respond. Please refer to Ander and Hora in the recent responses to concerns raised in regard to the accuracy of the alliance’s approach within the confederacy of Consone – these are representative of our stance. Scaramouche and Nokigon also make fair and balanced posts on the subject.

I would like to apologise for Invictusa’s post Sunstorm. I think it is fair to say he was upset by comments in GC about Consone that he felt were unfounded and then this post came which just made things worse from his point of view. His views were those of an individual and did not represent our collective alliance viewpoint. Indeed I would like to make it clear that the confederacy stance may be different to individual member’s views from time to time and that would be fair enough for any reasonable and balanced collection of people. So, apologies.

To be clear - our aims have never included war mongering, excluding people, anti-H? propaganda, forcing people to our will or any of the other conspiracies mentioned in previous posts that I may have missed out. Our actions have not been aggressive and at no point has the collective used negative propaganda about other alliances nor directed our attention to them. We have not carried out any aggressive or coercive action under the banner of Consone.

We are friends. We have been friends for a while. We wanted to formalise it and as with any other gathering, give people an idea of where we stand in order to be open and transparent. As you rightly said Sunstorm – it makes sense to have guiding principles in which we believe. We enjoy the game, we would like others to do the same. Your premise for discussion in regard to organisation could apply to any alliance and confederacy in Illy, not only our own, although I think the concern may come from the numbers of alliances involved.

It is a shame that some folk perceive the setting up of the confederacy to be based around themselves or other alliance’s actions, but the truth of it, and I have stated this many times in many different forums is that we are friends who share common values. I respect your line of questioning, Sunstorm, in relation to our standards and if we will be imposing them onto others. We have no intention of this – healthy debate and discussion has been the order of the day so far and I would like to keep it that way. There are plenty of alliances in the game imposing a standard in regard to settling towns, harvesting and claims and as this thread and others have shown, we have a far more flexible and inclusive approach to this.

As an update – the leaders of Victrix decided to keep links with Consone but withdraw their membership a while ago. They remain a close friend of Invictus naturally. Frost and World’s End Sieger’s have also joined us recently.

I am more than happy to answer questions here or in game and this is something I have explained to those who are concerned about us. Our actions so far have not betrayed us to be some warmongering dominatrix.... (more’s the pity for some!).... and long may that continue. If people have facts on which they can found their deep seated worries about this gathering, then please let me know about them so we can discuss them. But either way, I am happy to continue with an adult conversation here or in game.


Kind Regards,


Jasche (Consul - Invictus)

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