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The_Dude 
Postmaster General
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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 Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 21:29 |
 scaramouche wrote:
*** lol...dont get me wrong ..I aint saying you aint insignificant to us..on the contrary...your a big ( forgive the expression) pain in our rear...but I just meant that in the bigger scheme of things about the possible peace/surrender talks....why you have so much input? |
What "input" do you think I have?
RES has earned some respect from the Coalition. The Coalition has requested RES conditions for peace with WE for incorporation into larger terms of surrender. That is the extent of RES "input" outside of actual game combat which, as you know, has been quite substantial.
As to Consone surrender terms, I speak from experience. I have been on the other side of conflict of many of the coalition alliances - H?, Curse, Dlords. I have also paid close attention to their other conflicts. I understand them as well as anyone on the outside can, imo. Consone can learn from my experience or continue to ignore it.
But I know this, the Coalition will not negotiate. There is no magic intermediary that can change that. There are no magic words to be said that will change that.
This is not like buying a used car where you dicker over the price - the seller wants your cash and the buyer wants a car. Here, the Coalition is content with the status quo - launching armies, strafing cities, sieging cities. Consone wants to change the status quo - stopping the forgoing actions.
The Coalition will alter the status quo for the price presented and not a penny less. You will actually disappoint the Coalition if you accept the deal - this is how weak the position of Consone is. It also shows the "mercy" of the Coalition - giving up a lot of fun for themselves in order to allow others to better enjoy Illy. And this belies any claims that the Coalition are just being bullies. Bullies wouldn't make that concession.
Again, I say this from experience with Coalition leaders as well as 30 years of professional experience in conflict resolution. This is why I have "input." 
Edited by The_Dude - 06 Feb 2013 at 21:30
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Beecks
Wordsmith
Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 194
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Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 21:34 |
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The problem with these threads is that Consone has no leverage to force the Coalition to amend its requirement that each alliance seek peace separately.
The only argument that Consone seems to have is that if the Coalition doesn't accept Consone's post-war existence then the war will continue indefinitely. Given our success so far I don't see that as a negative. VICX and Roads have already dropped out, WE has been decimated and Valar can't even muster up the troops to defend their own members. Time is decidedly on the Coalition's side.
"You better deal with Consone as a whole or else we're going to keep letting you raze our cities" doesn't have much bite to it.
Edited by Beecks - 06 Feb 2013 at 21:36
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The_Dude
Postmaster General
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 21:36 |
Hora wrote:
The_Dude wrote:
This is my earlier point about leaders fighting to the death. Instead of considering what is best for your _team_, you only care about your own pride. This is what all Consone members need to understand - the leaders only care about their own pride and NOT about the larger needs of their membership.... Consone: What are your strategic goals for this war? Are you making progress to those goals? |
Point 1: (in fear of repeating myself) There is a function called AC, even in Consone alliances... people come there to talk to each other... even leadership can go there... Recent talk is, that most players would leave us IF we surrender at this point. (Think I remember about posting that somewhere earlier)
Point 2: Our strategic goal atm is not loosing, and we damn well make progress everyday we still live as a confederation. If we take out some H?, DLord, or whatever other alliances towns on the way, that's a fine extra (simple as that, I hope that's simple enough...) |
OK, Consone's strategic goal is survival.
That is accomplished by accepting terms of surrender.
Hora, have you gone to you H? embassy and requested terms? Just for VIC, not everyone. And I suggest that VALAR, EE, AA, and WE (did I overlook anyone?) do the same, post haste.
Then accept those terms. Immediately. And Consone will have achieved its strategic goals for this war.
Now, don't come back and complain that the terms are too onerous and should be changed - they will not change.
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scaramouche
Forum Warrior
Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 432
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Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 21:40 |
The_Dude wrote:
But I know this, the Coalition will not negotiate. |
Now I dont want to seem.... pick nicking snippets of conversation..but surely this about sums up that no matter how consone approach possible peace/surrender talks...your saying there is NO negotiation?
If this is the case.... I waste no more words on this topic.
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NO..I dont do the Fandango!
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Hora
Postmaster
Joined: 10 May 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 839
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Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 21:53 |
Well, tried my best...
Let's go into forum silence, scaramouche. They want to keep on fighting? They shall do... if they only would stop about us not wanting peace 
Last think I wanted to sa........... ...... .... .. .. . . .
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The_Dude
Postmaster General
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 21:54 |
scaramouche wrote:
The_Dude wrote:
But I know this, the Coalition will not negotiate. |
Now I dont want to seem.... pick nicking snippets of conversation..but surely this about sums up that no matter how consone approach possible peace/surrender talks...your saying there is NO negotiation?
If this is the case.... I waste no more words on this topic. |
Scar, if you will indulge with a few more words...
People negotiate to get something they want from the other fella. What does Consone have that the Coalition wants or needs?
I negotiate for a living in RL - people pay me actual money for this. I honestly can see nothing that Consone has to offer in a negotiation. So, please, what does Consone put on the table for the Coalition?
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Hora
Postmaster
Joined: 10 May 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 839
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Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 21:55 |
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.. ... .. ......... .. .
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 21:55 |
The_Dude wrote:
scaramouche wrote:
*** lol...dont get me wrong ..I aint saying you aint insignificant to us..on the contrary...your a big ( forgive the expression) pain in our rear...but I just meant that in the bigger scheme of things about the possible peace/surrender talks....why you have so much input? |
What "input" do you think I have?
RES has earned some respect from the Coalition. The Coalition has requested RES conditions for peace with WE for incorporation into larger terms of surrender. That is the extent of RES "input" outside of actual game combat which, as you know, has been quite substantial.
As to Consone surrender terms, I speak from experience. I have been on the other side of conflict of many of the coalition alliances - H?, Curse, Dlords. I have also paid close attention to their other conflicts. I understand them as well as anyone on the outside can, imo. Consone can learn from my experience or continue to ignore it.
But I know this, the Coalition will not negotiate. There is no magic intermediary that can change that. There are no magic words to be said that will change that.
This is not like buying a used car where you dicker over the price - the seller wants your cash and the buyer wants a car. Here, the Coalition is content with the status quo - launching armies, strafing cities, sieging cities. Consone wants to change the status quo - stopping the forgoing actions.
The Coalition will alter the status quo for the price presented and not a penny less. You will actually disappoint the Coalition if you accept the deal - this is how weak the position of Consone is. It also shows the "mercy" of the Coalition - giving up a lot of fun for themselves in order to allow others to better enjoy Illy. And this belies any claims that the Coalition are just being bullies. Bullies wouldn't make that concession.
Again, I say this from experience with Coalition leaders as well as 30 years of professional experience in conflict resolution. This is why I have "input." |
Wow. TD has been paying attention this whole time! Eerily accurate description... Maybe he isn't "all hat, no cattle"? ;)
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Grego
Postmaster
Joined: 09 May 2010
Location: Klek
Status: Offline
Points: 729
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Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 21:55 |
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The_Dude
Postmaster General
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2396
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Posted: 06 Feb 2013 at 22:00 |
Kumomoto wrote:
Wow. TD has been paying attention this whole time! Eerily accurate description... Maybe he isn't "all hat, no cattle"? ;)
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Kumo is showing off his Texas accent. 
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