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Topic ClosedConsequences of negative res without stored res

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intor View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2011 at 23:00
Also, if there will be a set amount of time before buildings will start getting downgraded (e.g. 24 hours), it might be a good idea, that when food (or other resource) is restored above 0, that the timer until next building gets downgraded is paused for lets say 32 hours, instead of being reset. If the resource again falls to 0 before the 32 hours elapse, the timer resumes where it left off.

Otherwise it would be possible for someone to bring enough resources every 15 hours or so to cover only 1 or 2 hours of consumption, and not lose building levels.
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Grisna View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2011 at 23:10
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

Originally posted by Grisna Grisna wrote:

Destroying the most recently created buildings in order seems like the best to me.  If you create a priority system then surely it is easy for people to use it deliberately as a faster alternative to demolition.  I can't see a new exploit openning up if it is always the most recent.

In terms of the new buildings, you should address the resource with the greatest negative hourly rate first.  Delevel the most recently created buildings that have an upkeep of that resource first.  Once that resource has a positive balance you move on to the next most negative hourly rate.  Rinse and repeat until all resource rates are positive Clap
Precisely what we were thinking here.  Nicely summarised! Star

SC

Big smile
Thank you SC


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2011 at 23:14
Originally posted by Babbens Babbens wrote:

No exploit possible if demolition (downgrade) times were the same for both methods (and why shouldn't they be?). It would be just like a "normal" downgrade, only not chosen willingly.

Step 1 - Build a building you cannot afford.  Instantly complete it with Prestige
Step 2 - The system starts a long downgrade, during which you receive the full benefit of said building
Step 3 - The downgrade completes, and go go back to step 1
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Tordenkaffen View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2011 at 23:21
In spite of there being an exploit present, I still think we have yet to establish that the exploit is actually being used.
In spite of having had substantial food deficits in some of my cities over time I have only once experienced running out of food completely, and this was rectified a few minutes later, not because I related to it as an exploit but because I found it extremely inconvenient that my entire town shut down all kinds of production. With sovereignty available and the ability to found multiple cities before any minus in food production enters the picture (assuming all farms are lvl 20), its really not difficult making things come together via moving food around from town to town.

More over it has occured to me recently that the food issue presents an interesting opportunity for smaller players to trade/help their larger allies in return for resources, and thus feel that they contribute in a significant way rather than only recieve.

But I am supportive of the idea to delevel town buildings, I merely think, as SC earlier stipulated, that it may hit inexperienced players a lot harder than established players.
Ill leave the GMs to draw the magic line.


Edited by Tordenkaffen - 27 Sep 2011 at 23:22
"FYI - if you had any balls you'd be posting under your in-game name." - KP
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 08:17
Thank you Grisna for explaining, it didn't occur to me Ermm
but wouln't the instant built building be at lvl 1 and readily destroyed again?
Anyway, never mind, your way is best.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 12:08
Originally posted by intor intor wrote:

Also, if there will be a set amount of time before buildings will start getting downgraded (e.g. 24 hours), it might be a good idea, that when food (or other resource) is restored above 0, that the timer until next building gets downgraded is paused for lets say 32 hours, instead of being reset. If the resource again falls to 0 before the 32 hours elapse, the timer resumes where it left off.

Otherwise it would be possible for someone to bring enough resources every 15 hours or so to cover only 1 or 2 hours of consumption, and not lose building levels.


Originally posted by Tordenkaffen Tordenkaffen wrote:


But I am supportive of the idea to delevel town buildings, I merely think, as SC earlier stipulated, that it may hit inexperienced players a lot harder than established players.
Ill leave the GMs to draw the magic line.

I think there may need to be a few magic lines, as intor suggested.

If you are only slightly negative (say less than 5 below per hour), does it constitute the immediate deleveling of a recently completed level 20 building?  I hope not.

I think some warning is a good idea, and 24 hours is good enough for most people who play at least daily.  For my money I think a full week should go past before the clock is fully reset.  This permits anyone, new player or veteran, to go negative for no more than an average of 3 hours and 25 minutes per day, but still gives a generous 24 hour warning of an automatic building de-leveling.

Who should be exempt?  Since the prestige reward for inviting a friend kicks in when they reach a population of 100, and the 7 day protection period, I would think if either is true (pop<100 or age < 7 days) then you should be exempt.

Just my 2 cents worth,
Grisna
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Grego View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 13:12
With this mechanism attacker can demolish city without laying a siege. Few spells with direct army attacks  will leave empty stores, with food production in red. Maybe would be nice to have safe granary inside city walls to delay such outcome.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 14:40
I share the skepticism voiced by some, that we hear about these changes, and they don't materialize, but I also fully support the de-leveling buildings  option if it can be done in an efficient way. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 15:41
Demoing the newest building/upgrade may not be the most productive.  If I have a food deficit and I'm actively trying to upgrade farms and/or build a flourmill, it will just prolong the struggle and be very, very frustrating if they keep getting demoed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2011 at 15:52
I support the earlier update that was planned - sliding of the tax rate when there is a negative resource till it becomes positive. If there are negative resources at 0% tax, advanced resource/units queues should stop. Thus a sliding tax could lead to a partial or complete troop loss as well as stoppage of resource and units queues.

Full stoppage of tax collection without sliding the ruler first, could have disastrous effects. Suppose you are running on positive gold but without much reserve. Someone could blight your food away and cast another blight one that causes -6% food production. If your taxes stop at the negative food, you'll suddenly have a huge negative of gold and will loose all your troops instantly. And all this could happen in just 5 minutes when you are AFK.



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