Play Now Login Create Account
illyriad
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Combat API and its use in a Player Run Tourney
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Combat API and its use in a Player Run Tourney

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 11>
Author
mjc2 View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjc2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 23:56
Originally posted by Xmco Xmco wrote:


You are misrepresenting what has been requested, or maybe simply misunderstanding.

We have never asked for an API key that allows players (through checkboxes) to choose what data is returned by the API key. 

We have asked, politely and patiently, that an API key is provided by the DEVS that returns ONLY the information that is required to run a KOTH tournament.  (The Checkbox option was suggested to THE DEVS to allow them to quickly and easily produce API keys that would return appropriate information for future Tourneys). 

Is there any possibility of answering, without misunderstanding, why an API key that returns ONLY the relevant information to run Koda's tournament cannot be provided? 

as an aside since SC has already answered this.  lets assume the devs do make a specific API for a KotH  tourney, once they do that they are now putting themselves at the mercy of any other player that requests a specific type of API for any tourney they can come up with.  the only reasonable way they could do this without constantly being diverted from development to make these API keys is to use a checkbox system, and honestly i would rather have the developers working on other features to this game instead of creating lots of different types of API keys for individual situations.
Back to Top
Hyrdmoth View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 164
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hyrdmoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 23:53
Originally posted by Luffster Luffster wrote:

Originally posted by Xmco Xmco wrote:


Is there any possibility of answering, without misunderstanding, why an API key that returns ONLY the relevant information to run Koda's tournament cannot be provided? 

Regards

Luffy
If I understand it correctly it is because such an API key would be pointless, because it only requires one participant in the combat to have shared their full API key - or to forward the IGM of the combat report - and all the data you wish to hide is no longer hidden.
Back to Top
GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
GM

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GM Stormcrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 23:51
Originally posted by Luffster Luffster wrote:

Originally posted by Xmco Xmco wrote:


Is there any possibility of answering, without misunderstanding, why an API key that returns ONLY the relevant information to run Koda's tournament cannot be provided? 

Regards

Luffy
See above.
Back to Top
GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
GM

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GM Stormcrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 23:47
Originally posted by Xmco Xmco wrote:



We have asked, politely and patiently, that an API key is provided by the DEVS that returns ONLY the information that is required to run a KOTH tournament.  (The Checkbox option was suggested to THE DEVS to allow them to quickly and easily produce API keys that would return appropriate information for future Tourneys). 
To answer the second part, though - the only way that this could work is if we *also* suppressed any data coming back from the FULL Combat API XML key for *all* other players related to combats on those squares - which might well pick up backlash from those players who want their API keys to work for all the combats that they participate in.

Subsequently, we would then have to tailor-make different API keys for every different non-KotH tournament; which would be subject to all the players who wish to participate coming to a common consensus of agreement as to what is the minimum data needed for that specific tournament to run properly.

That doesn't sound like a workable solution to me.

Regards,

SC

Back to Top
Luffster View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luffster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 23:45
Originally posted by Xmco Xmco wrote:


Is there any possibility of answering, without misunderstanding, why an API key that returns ONLY the relevant information to run Koda's tournament cannot be provided? 

Regards

Luffy
Back to Top
GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
GM

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GM Stormcrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 23:35
Originally posted by Xmco Xmco wrote:


We have never asked for an API key that allows players (through checkboxes) to choose what data is returned by the API key. 

I'm not sharing private correspondences I may have had with any player, but you might want to check that assertion directly with Cilcain, Xmco.  

Regards,

SC
Back to Top
Xmco View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Location: Oxford
Status: Offline
Points: 2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xmco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 23:32
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:


The system that Cilcain is requesting we implement is, I'm afraid to say, entirely pointless - and let me explain why.

The system we're being asked to implement is that players have a restricted API key that allows players (through checkboxes) to choose what data is returned by their API key.


Regards,

SC


You are misrepresenting what has been requested, or maybe simply misunderstanding.

We have never asked for an API key that allows players (through checkboxes) to choose what data is returned by the API key. 

We have asked, politely and patiently, that an API key is provided by the DEVS that returns ONLY the information that is required to run a KOTH tournament.  (The Checkbox option was suggested to THE DEVS to allow them to quickly and easily produce API keys that would return appropriate information for future Tourneys). 

Is there any possibility of answering, without misunderstanding, why an API key that returns ONLY the relevant information to run Koda's tournament cannot be provided? 
Back to Top
GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
GM

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GM Stormcrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 23:26
Originally posted by Mahaut Mahaut wrote:

Please stop with the emotive and sarcastic "secret" data digs. Most alliances especially military ones have thinsg they would prefer to not be widely known, nothing new there.
I'm sure alliances do have secret data.  But combat data is not secret and never has been... that's the point.  

The counterparty or counterparties to the combat (ie the people you are fighting with who are not you) have always had this information.  This is why I'm putting the word 'secret' in inverted commas.  It's not because I'm being sarcastic - it's because this data is not secret, and it never has been.

Originally posted by Mahaut Mahaut wrote:

And what you are saying is our members concerns are to be ignored. Whereas a reduced subset will make no difference to anyone else whatsoever.

I think my efforts to explain my position show that I'm not ignoring your concerns, and am actually going out of my way to allay them.  A reduced subset will make a difference - for all these reasons I'm attempting (clearly poorly) to explain.

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

Incorrect, our concerns are simply that there is too much data, most of it completely unnecessary to the effective operation of a KoTHT. As Cilcain himself explained if a player makes a personal decision to share data by whatever means - it is his choice - if he chooses to copy paste he can delete data he doesn't want the recipient to see.
Sorry to come back to this, but a player cannot make a personal decision as to which data he or she wishes to share.  That decision is not his or hers to make as the data is, by default, out of that player's control, regardless of his or her wishes.

Regards,

SC


Edited by GM Stormcrow - 14 Apr 2016 at 23:27
Back to Top
GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
GM

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Illyria
Status: Offline
Points: 3820
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GM Stormcrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 23:16
Originally posted by Luffster Luffster wrote:

Cil - Thank you for taking your time on your holiday to look into the forum and put forward your points, I note that SC has not deigned to respond or to include the second and third points you put forward, but cherry pick your post to give his argument traction.

Then let me do so.

Originally posted by Cilcain Cilcain wrote:

Secondly, the use of the current Combat API for a player run tourney means that players must share this data with players outside of their alliance with whom they have probably had no previous dealings.  Your example of forwarding battle reports is generally done within the confines of an alliance – or more specifically, shared with specific leadership accounts within an alliance.  On the fewer occasions when reports are shared outside of an alliance, they tend to be on a battle by battle basis (see the first point above).

It seems fairly self-evident that in order to participate in a player-run tournament, you are going to have to share your data with the player who runs the tournament, with whom you may or may not have had previous dealings.  I'm not sure I understand what point is being made here.

Originally posted by Cilcain Cilcain wrote:

Thirdly, the current Combat API provides more information (or rather, the same information in more scenarios) than in-game battle reports do.  Currently, if I reinforce a square occupied by my Allies, Confeds or NAPs, I just get a report stating that my army has arrived, and the name of the player with the earliest occupying army.  However, using the API, I get an XML that details all of the armies on the square (including troop types and quantities) – i.e. you can scout without Scouts, even when the occupying armies have huge contingents of defending scouts themselves.  The same applies for reinforcing a city.
But when combat occurs on the square, you do get to know all the details of who was on the square with you.... they're your co-defenders in the combat report...

It makes total sense to me that when you are reinforcing with friendlies, you should know which friendly reinforcements are occupying the same square as you, as you're all fighting together.  In fact, and as has always been the case, when a fight *does* occur... you'd see all this data in the combat report (who you were fighting alongside) anyway.  It makes both logical and roleplay sense.

If there's anything in point 3 that isn't right, it's the initial email not telling you everyone who is on the square with you when you arrive; and maybe it should!

Regards,

SC


Edited by GM Stormcrow - 14 Apr 2016 at 23:33
Back to Top
The Reaper View Drop Down
Greenhorn
Greenhorn
Avatar

Joined: 03 Jun 2015
Location: Washington
Status: Offline
Points: 40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Reaper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 23:12
That actually makes a hell of a lot more sense. Thanks.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 11>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.