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Brandmeister 
Postmaster General 
Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 2396 |
 Topic: Brewing Optimized City?Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 10:53 |
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Okay, so I've set forth a goal to be the biggest and best brewer in Illyriad. I've got a settler prepped and I've almost finished my Warehouse and reached 450 population. Therefore it's a good time to start thinking about how to build a brewing-optimized city, and hopefully get some good advice from the Illyriad pros.
The site I've selected for Braumeisterberg has four +3% brewer SOV within immediate reach. Beer is 10 wood + 5 clay + 5 iron + 25 food, so I assume I want my resource production leveled in roughly that proportion (plus enough food to support population and buildings). Required buildings: Brewery, Storehouse, Warehouse Candidate buildings: Vault, Mill, Carpentry, Foundry, Library The first set of questions is for defense. Do cities in Illyriad get attacked by NPCs? If not, I figure I can get by without a barracks and any standing forces. I suppose a Mage Tower and Consulate could stop thieves from stealing the beer, or saboteurs from ruining production. But if you're totally non-hostile, it seems that maybe you could get by with no attack forces? Note that apparently completing the Steamtastic Brewery mystery requires a ton of advanced spies, so I'll end up with a developed Consulate no matter what. I'm also willing to assume that any uber-player who wants to rob me is going to be successful simply by swamping the city with a legion of thieves. The second set of questions is about magic. I understand that Geomancy can upgrade your production of basic resources. This seems highly desirable, but are there tradeoffs to using this approach? The third questions are about layering buildings. Apparently you can have multiple Mills, Carpentrys, Foundries, Geomancer's Retreats and so forth to increase the various bonuses? And that the bonuses are half as much for each successive building. Does anyone use these, and are they worth it? The fourth questions are about trade. Obviously I'd really want to sell my wares in a faction hub, where everyone could purchase them using their own caravans, and in whatever quantity they wished. I can see that this will potentially require some building infrastructure. Would it be smarter to not jump on this immediately, and instead later build a third city that is wholly trade-focused, adjacent to the brewing city? The down side seems to be that trade must be researched for each individual city, but that might allow me to more efficiently focus buildings and research on brewing. However, a trade focused city might have a much bigger caravan capacity so that I could move goods around more readily. I do anticipate that brewing production might outstrip my ability to produce resources, leading me to buy raw materials from the trade hubs in ratios of 45:1 (10+5+5+25 res to 1 keg). Anyway, apologies for the wall of text. If anyone feels compelled to bestow advice, feel free to focus on any interesting tidbits. |
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Mogul
Forum Warrior 
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Status: Offline Points: 233 |
Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 12:24 |
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Maybe I will try to look at this in more details in future as now i am kind of bored and spending unusually large time at this forum. It would help if you post also your target location. But here are just some quick thoughts about buildings: You need Warehouse to have SoV researched, you need Storehouse to make Warehouse (storehouse can be destroyed later but why would you do it) and you need Brewery to make beer... that's clear. You also need Marketplace to be able to deliver created beer somewhere. You don't really need Vault. You also need Library at max level to be able to research all needed things and mainly SoV needs research points as upkeep. So you should also make Statue discovery because if there are a lot of beer bonuses around, research points will be your beer production speed limitation. You will also need to make at least minimal army (with commander) and so barracks so that you can claim SoV. Architect office is one of my first buildings I focus on as it makes final goal reached faster (unless you are going to buy prestige and speed up builds I recommend this building) And you need Consulate for diplomats for beer and statue discovery. You can't have multiple mills, carpentry and co. but you can have multiple geomancers. Many people including me have 2 geomancers buildings to get higher food output. You need to calculate if you would need that, depends on how many beer SoV you can have. Especially without any big army you can have lower tax and so big resource outputs. Towns are not attacked by NPC currently. For trader you need Merchant's guild and to sell things at Hub you need also Trade Office. I doubt that your beer production will require more basic resources then you can produce. 5 resource plots at lvl 20: 12690 ... with 40%: 17766 3 resource plots at lvl 20: 7614 ... with 40%: 10659 those numbers are for 25% tax my lvl 20 brewery making 15 beer p/h needs per hour only: 150 wood, 75 clay, 75 iron, 300 food, 15 gold As you can see one town can easily make thousands resources every hour and so 150 wood can't really be any issue even if you would manage to get +300% on beer production. I would not split "trading" part of town to another town because you will maybe anyway need some more not beer related buildings just to increase your population to optimal size. Optimal size depends on SoV around you... |
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jordigui
Wordsmith
Joined: 20 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 157 |
Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 12:25 |
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Hi, congratulations for achieving 450 pop!
1. If you have some plots available at th end, that it seems so, I would recommend you to have barracks and a small army. 2. There are no tradeoffs with geomancy spells, but you can only have 1 casted. The most common is to upgrade food production. 3. These bonuses for multiple buildings are not present in all buildings, but the ones that consume resources. And yes, many people uses them. A geomancy building could help to improve the percentage by which your production is increased by the spell. 4. It is good to have 1 or several traders, but now i think it is really too early. And you don't need any trader to sell or buy basic resources (beer included). However, this may change in the near future. What I would advise if you want to build a city like this is that you first upgrade the basic resource production (wood, clay, iron, stone and food) to the maximum (I know it is boring!). Then use mills or other building to upgrade the basic production that you need. And start getting the sovereignity on the squares near you almost at the end, because they will also consume resources. I guess that you may want/need to dedicate some squares near you to food production (and maybe also the geomancy spell (nature bounty) and maybe a geomancer building. Ah, think that you will be raising taxes from time to time in your city, so that you can always get money, this would lower the production of your basic resources, that is why it is important that you upgrade them to the max. Once it is maxed and the beer production at large scale is in place, you may think what to put on the empty squares you may have in the town. This will depend on what products you have excess (for example, if you have a lot of iron and good, you may also want to produce spears. Finaly, think that we are now in the middle of a tournament, and with the danger of a war, so beer prices are quite high. Normaly they have been around 100 going up to 200 gold with the new crafting. I don't know if beer prices will remain tis high or they could decrease. Hope this could have helped a bit TH
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Mogul
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Status: Offline Points: 233 |
Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 13:10 |
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Ok... I forgot about one very important thing because my SoV buildings are all for food and they have no upkeep.
But for your beer SoV buildings you will need many basic resources as upkeep and so it will be issue and if there are more then 4 beer bonuses around you need to find optimal setup. Level I: 150 wood, clay, iron, stone p/h Level II: 300 wood, clay, iron, stone p/h Level III: 600 wood, clay, iron, stone p/h Level IV: 1,200 wood, clay, iron, stone p/h Level V: 2,400 wood, clay, iron, stone p/h 5 "level I" SoV buildings have same bonus effect on beer production as 1 "level V" but they cost much less basic resources (750 vs 2400) but much more research points (depends on distances from your town) But 4 * 2400 = 9600 is still less then 10659 (and you could go lower then 25% with tax) And don't forget that geomancers have also upkeep so probably not good for you Geomancers retreat: (clay: 2300/h - stone: 1500/h - wood: 700/h) |
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dunnoob
Postmaster 
Joined: 10 Dec 2011 Location: Elijal Status: Offline Points: 800 |
Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 13:16 |
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If you join an alliance you can end up in various kinds of hostilities between alliances not limited to diplo attacks. If you don't join an alliance a good name for your settlement would be target. And if you are inactive (not online) for days without a sitter, resulting in a flat pulse (=no change in pop) on Illy Stats, everybody and his dog will test your diplo defenses, and try to carry away what they can.
 additional mana.
Fresh attempt 20+20 in another town with more clay planned for December. 
Your main worry everywhere will be food, lots of food, more food, and above all food. For that you need a 7 food square with, say, a 25% sov bonus, e.g., 11 food dolmen at level 5 for 11% plus normal 7+7=14 food sov for 14%. And oops, there went some of your beer sov squares, they are needed for food.
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Mogul
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Status: Offline Points: 233 |
Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 16:06 |
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Maybe not. I don't have any numbers or calculations but I think in his special case food might be no issue. If only goal is beer production speed he might get it with small town for which 5 farms + mill could be enough. He will have no military buildings, no other production buildings... theoretically also no horse and cows productions. He could achieve that max beer production with maybe only 10k pop.
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dunnoob
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Dec 2011 Location: Elijal Status: Offline Points: 800 |
Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 17:38 |
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Beer prices immediately started to rise: 123 was high near the end of tournament IV in January, after trade v2 in summer 200 was cheap. Therefore I switched a sov square to a 2*(5+3)=16% beer bonus in my still growing 5 food capital. Didn't work for me, it's again a 7% food bonus, the beer bonus also did not affect wine. In a town exclusively dedicated to beer it might be better to have +7% food with 2*(5+5)=20% beer bonus than +5% food with 2*(8+5)=26% beer bonus. After all you can't do anything with the common grounds than breeding cows, and cows eat food. For the paddock he could import horses and train them with a horse trainer, otherwise breeding horses also needs food. Doing nothing with common grounds and paddock can't be a good idea, unless it's an experiment, who brews the fastest steamtastic (ugh!) guiness for the Illy's book of records.
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Brandmeister
Postmaster General
Joined: 12 Oct 2012 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 2396 |
Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 19:43 |
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It's been about 3.5 months since I started down the road to Neu Braumeisterburg. The town has evolved very nicely to a population of 2500. I incorporated a lot of feedback that I got from this thread, so I thought you guys might like to know that. If anyone wants to check out the town:
http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/215/-937 The brewery is about to reach level 20. I completed the Allembine Research and Gnome Brew discoveries. Of course, I prefer to think that my braumeisters reverse engineered the gnomish process to employ dwarven efficiency while still producing great craft beers. The town itself is still fairly sparse. As recommended, I have a high level Mage Tower and a maximum rune for protection, plus a high level Consulate. I also have a fully leveled Marketplace and Warehouse. Neu Braumeisterburg is home to several hunting armies, because there are lots of interesting animal parts to be obtained in Tallimar (I have another city devoted wholly to platemail crafting). For harvesting I have two level 10 Skinners, and two Herbalists at 13 and 9. The other 11 plots are all cotters, who supply minerals and herbs for crafting. Since the brewery is finally at full capacity, I have started claiming sov for Brewer's Yards. There are four +3% Brewing squares at distance 1 (x2), 1.4 and 2. The short term plan is to get these each to Sov II, which will cost about 1800 gold/hr and 1200 res/hr. The final math on this configuration should be 24.6 barrels/hr (15 barrels/hr for level 20, multiplied by +64%). Sov might be limited in Neu Braumeisterburg for a while, simply because there aren't many buildings that raise population. That caps the maximum tax rate. I may experiment with a Chancery of Estates and try adding 16 Brewers Yards I at +5% each. That would take brewing to +144%. Of course, that would also drain a lot of basic resources One of the lessons I've learned is that the underlying resource plots can be more important than getting maximum location for the bonus squares. I picked a 5w/4c/4i/3s/7f square for the city itself, and it's pretty obvious that the Chancery of Estates is going to badly strain clay production, especially if I build two. However, since the city has a modest population and a 7 food base, I may end up using a kiln and the Nature's Earth geomancy (+8% clay), plus a Sov V on the 12 clay hill at 213|-936 (2.2 sq). As the city grows towards 5000 population, I will likely end up demolishing more of the 11 cottages. But maybe not. Tallimar is a great place for herb and mineral harvesting, and my armor city is already almost completely full of crafting buildings. Overall I'd call this ongoing experiment a great success. I'm learning a great deal about the game mechanics in Illyriad, plus I'm having lots of fun trying to be the biggest brewer in the game. I'm also quite pleased by all the interesting items I can craft by shooting giant beetles, pumas, baboons and golden monkeys. Thanks to everyone who took the time--both in this thread and in chat--to give me great advice on resource production, city building and sovereignty. Cheers, --Brandmeister P.S. Attention monkeys: you brought this on yourselves. Stop eating my cotters, you little yellow furred jerks! P.P.S. Dear beetles: you've got two strikes against you. You ate 30 skinners in December (EXPENSIVE!), and you are highly useful for making mountain armor. We are obviously going to end up killing a whole lot of you to pay for those skinners. Oh who am I kidding, why am I scolding brainless insects that infest trash heaps? Someone shoot them, and ship the hearts to Centrum.Neu BraumeisterburgNeu Braumeisterburg |
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Legoman
Greenhorn 
Joined: 20 Nov 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 73 |
Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 20:26 |
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Raise your skinners and herbalist guild to 20, great pop boost. 1497 at level 20. My brewing city makes 25.5/hour with two sovs of 35%ea. (lvl5*7%)each.
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Anjire
Postmaster
Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Status: Offline Points: 688 |
Posted: 05 Feb 2013 at 20:37 |
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If you are going pure brewery focused, you should be able to set up your city for a concentrated focus of 250% or greater using 18-20 squares split between level II, III.
Ultimately, one brewery active in most of your cities will produce more than enough beer to fill any military needs and leave you with a large surplus.
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Brewing Optimized City?
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Brandmeister wrote: