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Battle Calculation with Equipment
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Greenhorn
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Joined: 19 Oct 2016
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Points: 69 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2018 at 07:12
ah, not sure why those images become so blurry after upload... Anyone could advise anything here plz?



this one looks a bit better i guess..
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Greenhorn
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Originally posted by Hucbold Hucbold wrote:

I'm sorry to disagree but you do NOT multiply the equipment bonus by the terrain bonus. 



That's a fresh one. 4 commanders, 3 elite, 1 non-elite. Pres bonus on top to make calcs a bit more complex, but no biome. PLainsman gear, heavy horses, Heroism 10, Charge 15 for all. Ifyou could provide your calculations Hucbold I'd be most curious to learn them. And if you could provide one of your battle reports that illustrate your outcome prediction skill - I'd be both most curious and most grateful too:)

Great lucks and good hunting, pals
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Greenhorn
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Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

The main issues with using equipment tend to be economic ones

In hunting crafted is only used on commanders, troops are never equipped. Not sure about PvP but I'd say it must be some extremely desperate situation to use thousands of equipment units to loose in a single battle. Well, unless one is defending a town. But generally I guess no one casres to equip troops too, far too expensive. Remeber "Brave Heart"? "Send Irish first: arrows cost money, Irish cost nothing". Well, this cynical approach rules Illy too: troops cost pennies, whyequip[ them you you could just use more troops
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Greenhorn
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Originally posted by Hucbold Hucbold wrote:

I'm sorry to disagree but you do NOT multiply the equipment bonus by the terrain bonus.

I'm not too sorry to disagree with you, Hucbold, for the debates give birth to the truth:) I take it you will not believe my words if I just say "you are wrong". So let's post our battle reports and see whose method works better. I'd love to see my fails if there are any, but up to this date i've made virtually thousands  victorious hunting runs with 1 survivor, about 10 with zero survivors, which showed calculations worked perfectly right.

Let me start wtih posting this one, made the day before yesterday. I'll make few more and you make some too, lets compare them
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So, to use your example of the knight on mountains:
A knight at current centrum prices costs 3237
A mountain spear costs 8200 and gives a 60% bonus
Therefore a mountain spear removes the need to spend 1942.2 on knight building equipment.
This leaves 6257.8 in cost from the spear.
Now, assuming you have a 50% cost reduction on troop upkeep, a knight costs 2 per hour in upkeep.
Therefore a equipping a knight with a spear is worth it if the knight you would be equipping it to was around for 3129 hours or more.... which is over 130 days.... 

If you do the same but with elite divisions used, then that figure falls to just under 90 days.

Not really worth it imo.

You may have faster recovery times but if you are at war then you can't be spending troops hunting meaning you need to buy the ingredients to make the equipment... meaning you need deep pockets.
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

The main issues with using equipment tend to be economic ones- equipment is rather expensive in large quantities, especially when you'll lose most of it attacking and then any that does survive may be collected by your enemies.

If you have deep pockets, then yeah. equipment makes sense.... if you don't then it should be used sparingly when it will have the most impact.

... but the bigger the score you're augmenting the more the economics work for you. Remember that the bonus is not just bigger kill ratios but smaller armies too - equipment has no maintenance cost - and faster recovery times - you can make equipment in parallel to building troops. Kill and craft your own stuff - keeps you busy while waiting for the paint to dry.
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The main issues with using equipment tend to be economic ones- equipment is rather expensive in large quantities, especially when you'll lose most of it attacking and then any that does survive may be collected by your enemies.

If you have deep pockets, then yeah. equipment makes sense.... if you don't then it should be used sparingly when it will have the most impact.
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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Originally posted by Sene Sene wrote:

1. Through my all years in Illy i have learned that:

total attack = basic attac * general multiplier * crafted multiplier,
where

1.
a) Basic attack of a unit is basicly a basic attack of a unit (eg knight's BA = 65, stalwart's = 45),
b) commander basic attack = UBA * (1+ HL*6), where

UBA - unit's basic attack  - the attack score of the unit the commander is recruited from;
HL - Heroism skill level;

2. General multiplier is comprised of every bonus out there but crafted:

Division bonus attack skill
Terrain;
Biome;
Prestige;

the multiplier is = 1 + (DBA% + TB% + BB% + PB%)/100

3. crafted multiplier is  1 + (armor bonus% + weapon bonus% + mount bonus%)/100;
or when elite: CM = 1 + (armor bonus% + weapon bonus% + mount bonus%)*2/100;


so lets assume a classic situation: you deploy an army of 61 knight troops lead by 5 elite knight commanders on plains, with only commanders equipped with pains spears and plainsman armor and heavy horses, no biome and pres bonus on,all commanders have heroism 10 and charge level 15;

so each of your commander's attack will consist of:

a) basic attack: 65*(1+ 10*6) = 65*61 = 3965

b) general multiplier consists of: terran 30%, charge 15%, biome 0%, pres 0%, total of

GM = 1 + (30 + 15 + 0 +0)/100 = 1.45;

c) crafted multiplier: plains spear +60%, plains armor +60%, heavy horse +5%, all elite;
CM = 1 + (60 + 60 +5)*2/100 = 3.5;

so your total (knight) commander's attack will be:

TCA = 3965 * 1.45 * 3.5 = 20 122.375;

5 commanders will do: 20 122.375 * 5 = 100 611.875;

61 knight troops gonna deal: 65 * 61 * 1.45 * 1 (unequipped) = 5 749.25;

and your total army's attack is:

TAA = 100 611.875 + 5 749.25 = 106 361.125.

I've checked this script on virtually thoudands of attacks during last 5 years and it did work all the time. But I haven't been too active during last few months so unless the devs have changed the rules recently it all should be true.

PS A bit tipsy atm and English is ot my mother tongue so sorry guys if it's not coming too clear. tried my best you know, hope it helps.

I'm sorry to disagree but you do NOT multiply the equipment bonus by the terrain bonus. I've also checked this over long periods until I correctly predicted kills in advance. Take a human Knight for example. Its basic attack is 65. The correct terrain gear adds 60% for the weapon and 60% for the armour - this comes to +39 for each REGARDLESS of terrain. Ignore all other bonuses for the moment.
So on plains 65+39+39 + 19.5(terrain) = 162.5 (not 185.9 as if multiplied)
and on large mountains 65+39+39 - 19.5 = 123.5 (not 100.1)
Note that the difference is not as big as you might instinctively think and it is NOT insane to send cav up mountains! if properly geared.
Remember also that a terrain spear costs the same to make no matter which troop type you put it on - so the decision to use gear is much easier for a human knight than it is for 'in-between' troop types and nearly impossible for a one million kobold army. 
There are a lot of misunderstandings about equipment and charts that draw conclusions that are only valid if no equipment is used - my advice to you is to analyse your battle reports until you can do the calculation yourself - experiment - predict - analyse. You will find that you can get EXACT results.
If you have a battle report and can tell me the equipment used, I can do the calculation for you a couple of times.

PS: - this really matters when you use equipment on ALL your troops, not just commanders.


Edited by Hucbold - 02 Jun 2018 at 02:02
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Greenhorn
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No, Dabrelis, hit points loss is equal to troops losses percentage. 23% losses mean 23 HP loss for all commanders in the army. Levels, experience, skills or anything but loss rate matter not. Hence here commanders lost 100 HP
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Greenhorn
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If your stalwarts had 100 health not 300, would they be damage by 100 or 33 health in same scenario?
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