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Ascn/Falln Diplomacy

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Mad_Mano View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 Mar 2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mad_Mano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 05:53
Yeah it is a long mail.. i just copy pasted what i have been saying in many channels for a while now.


You didn't really answer any of the questions i raised but instead went on to counter my facts.. anyway that is also good because now i can show to the citizens of illyriad what a liar you are and how you are spinning up stuff.


"I don’t believe we need to go through 5 years of Illy history"  -- It is not 5 yrs.. it all started on 2019 August iirc so less than 2 years.


"Spektor reached out to propose peace directly to you on 3.8.21. Before then, we did not feel the situation had escalated to a point where peace talks were needed, and I have no communication from you on this matter" -  Correct Spektor reach out to me on the said date, before that you did not feel the need for peace talks because we didn't scout your towns in single night or exodused multiple towns on your door step or respond to your aggression in any way, I didn't mail you or spektor for that matter because we didn't get proper response from you both in previous cases.


04 Jul 2020 07:41 - Stormstone sieges we contacted Iron and multiple parties.
07 Nov 2020 15:33 - Trome sieges we contacted spektor.

There are other instances also where we tried to reach out and settle the difference but didn't get proper response for your side.


"Siege? Ryklaw did not lose a single city or even have a single cat land at his towns when he abandoned. He had a total of 1 city in Tallimar. Who abandons the game on the unwarranted fear of losing 1 city when you’ve played for years? Please provide something to support this claim, as it’s something you like to state to your members often"


Someone who doesn't want war and wants to be left alone? 

"It seems he is serious in taking my city. If so, let him destroy me. 

I hate war. "

This was the last message he sent before abandoning iirc , at this time he had two incomings siege speed along with 300k-500k troops on his door step. I think you went to raze his towns after that.



I really didn't follow what was happening with Tcol and you.. I had no idea why Rum and Tcol were at war or why you sieged Hath.

My motivation was simple, I didn't like you placing towns near me after your actions against Ascn. so i tried to object it and block the movements but anyway after talking with Rum leadership i did exo away.


"During this time, you admittedly tried to stop our efforts by blocking our cities by creating multiple accounts and using inactive sat players".


Again a false claim.. I moved one town from my account madmano. I asked for terras in ac and then hired a terraformer "horseapples" to block another spot.. Azad2 noticed the discussions going on in our skype and moved one town. I didn't ask him to do that , I was surpirsed when i found his town there.

"I have a terra ready to send out a settler at this time, terra account is HorseApples. Let me know what res mix you need and where to send it." -- quoted exactly from the terraformer mail.


"You and certain members sent many attacks at this time, many directly at my cities from your cluster at long distances. Happy to share reports."

hmm weird.. I don't remember sending attacks at your tallimar towns or your towns in north for that matter untill 18 Mar 2021. I would definitely like to see the reports you are talking about especially the ones which involved my troops, I don't recall anyone attacking any of your towns either, but i can't verify this fact because someone could have and didn't send the report to alliance but still i'm 95% sure no one attacked your towns. I did send armies at your blockades and sieges on Ascn players in stormstone and Trome. If I wanted to attack you I would have hit your towns in north, it doesn't make sense to send armies at towns which are 700sqs+ when you have other options at 300sqs.

"As is already obvious from above statements, our members were already there and experiencing aggression from mano and Hotattack, who were actively blocking and attempting to save Tcol." 

Again a false accusation.. If I wanted to help Tcol I could have killed those sieges, As i mentioned we only placed 3 towns near you trying to block and after discussion with Rum I exodused away my town which i placed near you and remaining two towns were razed by The orc. .All this happened before Jun 2020 iirc. Your expansion started around Nov-2020 i think.


we performed some diplo missions, for which they sieged another ascn town on Jan 15.

"You used .azuk (again we have reports), an account that sits in nCrow but I understand was passed to your ownership by questionable means. .azuk diplo’d almost every single city in the north (some were caught) while our troops were again fighting Tcol in the desert. Yet again, Ascn leadership (we do not blame every member of Ascn for these actions as they are likely unaware of what you’re doing based on what you tell them) was actively targeting us during a war with Tcol to support the enemy."

There are two wrong facts here:

Azuk has been my alt, but only few people knew that.. I abandoned my alt and started Azuk since i wanted to break blag's record of most number of towns(40) . I did do that but then he broke azuk's record(45).
I kept that within my trusted circle because azuk's main objective was 40+ towns and i didn't want him to get dragged into wars or stuff back then. "Dittobite,WildThron,Cormoran,Count Rupert,Deb,Thanes,Malek" were few of the people who knew azuk was my alt from day 1.

I never said we didn't diplo your towns.. but the fact to notice here are the dates.

On Dec 15, you sieged hotattack and Rupe towns on Qarro.

Your attacks continued on our players till Jan end according to the reports I have in my mailbox, during this time we did scout few towns to identify any sieges. we also came under heavy onslaught of thieves.

Then on Feb 25th , The orc attacked Pure who was in Bunch relocating his towns since you sieged him in Trome.

In response to this Azuk did scout all falln towns in Ursror\Qarro on the same day to identify any potential sieges.

Now the timing here was pure coincidence, entire ascn council\leadership knew i was away during the mid of feb (7-23) due to rl reasons, so i had no idea what was going on that time. So when i came to know about The orc attack on pure i launched diplos without waiting.. Then only i found out that there was ops against Tcol and only after seeing diplo reports i came to know falln was also in that ops.

However the scout reports also revealed that most of your towns near Ascn players were building infantry\siege engines even though they were on arctic sov for spears. Hence we decided to move more towns in to support the players during which we found you were moving more towns so we decided to kill your sieges on terra.



"We went forward with this operation as stated that we will target every single member if they choose to remain in Ascn and support your behavior"

This has always been the solution for you right.. even though i tried to keep Ascn and everyone out of the problems between us two, you always seem to find some reason to attack Ascn. Azuk was not in Ascn when he diplo'd falln.



"Correct, you violated our peace talks by stating that “it was still being discussed” and surprise attacked our members"


12 Mar 2021 17:52 - Till this period the negotiations was going.. 

Basically I proposed "Baynights\Luta will exo out of north" and Spekor countered it saying we can exo few towns if Ascn give the prestige to rebuild.

18 Mar 2021 06:20 - On this date i was even open to the idea of giving the prestige required for you to move away and suggested to give a Tome.

But on the same day i came across various messages\ mails you were sending to our allies, players.. on top that we found both You and Luta had towns which had started exodus recently. So essentially you were the one who violated the negotiations and in response we attacked few of your towns.



"Ascn has violated diplomatic trust by abusing confed/nap status of EE (now dropped), Bunch (to send attacks), VTX (to claim sov and settle next to our cities to actively target our members), Plan (to again settle next to our cities) and nCrow (for mano to send attacks and cities from .azuk)"


Good Try there

we did get permission from EE players before moving in.. it is unforunate the message was not conveyed to the leadership.

It is my understand Pure never sent attacks at falln towns when he was in bunch. It was falln who attacked Pure and Bunch leadership is also aware of those attacks, I see he has dropped recently and the timing in your notification clearly shows he was not in Bunch when he attacked.

NCrow - As i said azuk has been my alt from day 1 and was part of ncrow for quite a long time, that's how i became close with Ncrow players and knew about all the things which was going on there, when Ascn decided to merge with Ncrow i moved my alt to Ncrow to help with players moving.


"No ego, I have proposed peace for your alliance members and have accepted responsibility where we can. We continue to propose peaceful options for Ascn while you “decide”."

Haha what a joke.. you were the one who started attacking ascn and continued to attack our player for past 1.5 years. Even in recent times Falln was the one who started the attack and what you didn't expect  our response, you came to us with ceasefire and we told we don't trust you so gave you the best deal i could, but then you chose to ignore it and moved more towns.. which resulted in us attacking you now you are here on forum spinning stories filled with lies and no real facts or proof.


"It looks like your “discussions with council and members” is going well! It must be some discussion to take 3 weeks. Please continue to abuse our cease fire and proposed NAP by targeting our members, while saying that you can’t trust us."

19 Mar 2021 13:58 - This is when Spektor again countered the offer after our attacks
20 Mar 2021 07:21 - when i told i will forward the message to council
22 Mar 2021 06:45 - when this forum thread was created by you.

And i'm still here responding, not stalling. It is you who is not respecting the negotiations and continue to exodus more towns.


So basically I think i have given enough proof\facts to prove every point you said was a lie and your attempt to spin the story away.


I'm not aware of the forums rules, whether IGM can be posted here so i have kept it off the forums, if anyone wants to see any of the mails or communications which i have highlighted in this post, please feel free to contact me via IGM.


So to summarise 

"Baynights has a problem with me and hotattack, he decided to attack Ascn players for that because they are easy targets and Ascn is not a pvp\war allaince. Given I'm in leadership position whatever i say in gc is taken in wrong way and spinned up as Ascn stance. As much as i try to keep it apart and make it clear, he seems not to understand that or even if he understands he just ignores it cause then it will prove that he has been the aggressor\lying for the entire time"

"On many occasion he has been saying we are helping tcol we are hiding their gold farms etc.."

Ascn is very casual alliance we don't have any special requirements to join us.. we don't vet the players or anything, so it is easy to sneak in a spy or gold farm into Ascn without our knowledge.Most of our players never take part in gc or in any political talks, so basically we are minding our own stuff , so we are not keeping track of what is happening between Tcol and Falln or anything

As i mentioned above the timing of events were pure coincidence, you moved to north to siege tcol i have no idea what happened before that. I noticed you moving north so i objected which happened last year, The orc attacked our ally on feb25, so i scouted all your towns.


"I have stated it many times and i'm stating it again in here , that Ascn is not working with Tcol, As mentioned it is easy to sneak in a gold farm\spy account into Ascn. Give me proof that the account is Tcol gold farm\spy, i will happily kick that player out of Ascn."


BTW atleast in your next post answer the questions or give the facts\proof instead of spinning up stories.. I have very little time for the game and i'm tried of repeating the same thing over and over to you for years.

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Grom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 07:53
I'll refrain from getting bogged down in details. The sheer amount of lies I'd need to respond to otherwise is simply overwhelming (I will say we have no alt-farms in Ascn) . Bottom line from my PoV is that Bay has viewed Ascn as a target ever since he failed to get them to do his bidding when he ran to them for help during the Saints/Tcol war. This isn't likely to change long term. Like most egocentric pvp players he goes for the easy targets (isolated, bad terrain, casual player), because every time in the past few years that he sieged a well placed, active opponent in a military alliance, he had his arse handed to him. This even held true in the recent sieges on myself, despite the fact that he had considerable outside help from Sin and Ta2in. So once he, again, needs to concede defeat (which in his case usually means abruptly disbanding his alliance) I have little doubt he'll again look at the perceived easy targets to boost morale. Whether he'll be firmly entrenched on spear sov right next door to Ascn when he does, who can say? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snagglepuss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 09:03
so much for discussion, I believe other members have posted, not just Mano, and have mentioned 5 year grudges?? Don’t be obtuse and read the thread? EVERYONE picks easy targets to start the war...accusing Bay of that makes no sense as it is a staple of PVP play. I did it in TCol with Groms blessing? He sure never complained about it then? As Mano says, no on knows the whole truth? Maybe some of the more frightened and pompous posters here will realize that and let the diplomacy happen or not happen. This is getting ridiculous. It’s apparent that both sides have done a fair amount of shenanigans. Are we really going to continue to hash out who was MORE at fault?? Move on or say no to the  diplomacy?  
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Grom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 12:08
"let the diplomacy happen or not happen", "Move on or say no to the  diplomacy?"

These gems actually had me laughing out (quite) loud. Possibly because I imagined a bored toddler brought to a meeting shouting "stop talking and let the diplomacy happen!" before holding his breath in protest until his face turned red. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dessembrae Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 15:53
Originally posted by Grom Grom wrote:

"let the diplomacy happen or not happen", "Move on or say no to the  diplomacy?"

These gems actually had me laughing out (quite) loud. Possibly because I imagined a bored toddler brought to a meeting shouting "stop talking and let the diplomacy happen!" before holding his breath in protest until his face turned red. 

As a toddler I take offense to me being involved in this discussion in such a fashion, I would never hold my breath I would be spitting at everyone involved!
AKA Agalloch The Rude
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silverblade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 16:40
Crazy timing to return back to the game, back in 2014 I remember being under the leadership of Bay. Now it seems I've ended up on the opposing side over time after leaving for a bit. These "5 year grudges" if there are some don't apply to me and if these talks didn't conclude on a non-aggression stance, I wouldn't personally see any reason to continue the war other than the strategic advantage Falln has near main hub and the lack of trust between Ascn and Falln. 

In essence, If both parties want to come to peaceful solution. That discussion should occur between leadership privately of course taking into consideration the view of the alliance as a whole. Forum discussion often agitates the two parties taking jabs at each other in order to prove whether one party is right or the other. 

Either way, it's been a fun time to return and I'm enjoying seeing these forum discussions like I used to in the past

AKA Aurelian. 
Aurelian - Eternal Flame Council - Ascn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jejune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 18:58
My two cents: there seems to be a desire to decide on whether peace in this conflict can be negotiated or not. Winning an argument on who is ultimately to blame is not how you broker peace. Assigning blame is going to be impossible to agree on -- all of the arguing over what led to the conflict in this forum thread proves this. 

In order to determine if peace can negotiated, both parties need to drop the blame game and simply put on the table what they want. If you can find a middle ground between what both sides want, then you'll have a peace accord. 

This kind of negotiation cannot and should not be conducted multilaterally in the forums. You'll never get to the heart of the negotiation with all of the "noise" from other players (including me). You need to IGM one another one-on-one or grab some time in Slack and hash it out.

But understand this: You will never agree on who is at fault. And that shouldn't be a prerequisite for peace, anyway.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BayNights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 04:24
Agreed with the feedback from everyone here. Thank you Mano for corrected errors where there may have been. Good to see Grom and Snags arguing in the forum :) Ag - this thread is blessed with your presence which is a true achievement. Aurelian, it's good to see you again my battlefield comrade. And Jejune, your guidance is spot on.

I am happy to report that, despite me being almost a day behind on the forums and not having read all the recent posts before our discussion, Mano and I have chatted directly. We are committed to moving on from our past skirmishes and finding not just peace for our members but something better.

We'll make a forum announcement as we finalize details. Once again, appreciate all the interaction here. We have a great community.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Duran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 05:34
Well, I’m happy this is going to end in a peaceful facet. Hopefully we’re all informed about what the agreement will be. As this has been extremely enlightening. Just for the game as a whole to see this be brought about this way. Really looking forward to the end result! Great job Mano and BayNights!
"Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Solanar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 13:33
The arguing was far more interesting to me than peace will be. But I guess we will see how it plays out. 

Cheers
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