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Ascn/Falln Diplomacy

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Fanuidhol View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fanuidhol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 04:17
Grom pretty much explained the hypocrisy. The land claw-backs mentioned were not related to anything that happened in BL, what happens in BL stays in BL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BayNights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 05:53
It's good to see the discussion here and thank you for everyone's feedback.

Smokecakes - Agreed on your points and to be clear, I am not aware of any personal grievances of our members against anyone that was in nCrow. As you mentioned, it was simply a case of choosing to align with Tcol and to claim territory as a part of CDS. Although nCrow was not aggressive in this claim, they had Tcol's backing to raze anyone who entered, and Tcol had declared war against us. What was asked was simply to drop the confed. Their response was to disband the alliance. We cannot control how players choose to respond, but regardless it did stop any hostilities against their members. Unfortunately, certain accounts stayed in nCrow or moved to the alliance and still send attacks at our members today. 

In the case of nCrow members who did lose cities (there were few), we are open to discuss repairing the damage. This will of course require us to repair our relationship first.

Fanuidhol - I appreciate your suggestion and understand your concern, but territory will not be returned. There are players who have been wronged on all sides. Our proposal is to move forward in peace so we can focus on our respective goals (ours is not to fight Ascn, now or in the future), and to avoid the damage that war will bring to many due to the actions of few. Our leadership has also discussed relocation of a select few cities on both sides to help broker a more peaceful situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mad_Mano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 09:50
Hello Everyone,

First I would like to clarify that this not the official statement from Ascn. The Nap, Peace are still being discussed and I will make an announcement once we have an answer.


This is just my views and my thoughts about the problem at hand.


BTW Baynights good PR stunt. I have been trying to reach out and solve the problem peacefully for past few months, but you never replied properly even in one occassion or was open to discussion.

I must agree it would have been hard for you to write this apology, but apology isn't going to bring back the players who you chased away from game or we continuing to put other players at risk because of your ego.

So citizens of Illyriad as much as we would like everyone to discuss about this, have debate and etc.. I believe everyone must know what the real problem is and what Baynights have been doing in past couple of years.

The problem is here is nothing new, it is an ego clash between couple of players. The only difference is we decided to walk away but Baynights decided to siege Ascn towns and involve other players who had nothing to do with this.

I have already stated the facts in many skype channel, alliance mails etc.. so i'm just going to post here one of those messages.


1) Ascn and Saints merged the merger didn't go well -> Saints wanted to fight Tcol, Ascn didn't this with combined with few other drama made one of the Rooks\council member to launch armies at Tcol. To prevent damage and full scale blown out war we made a Nap with Tcol. This didn't sit well with Saints who wanted to fight Tcol. so the merger failed. when this happened there was lot of drama and ego clash etc..

2) Saints then joined g! , Baynights sieged Ryklaw which made him to quit the game.

3) With the good leadership of G! we managed to reach ceasefire and then continued with on our own path.

4) Nov 2019 tourney was interesting and challenging we focused fully on that.

5) After this things were settled and then somewhere around this time last year. Tcol and Rum entered into war. so Baynights along with few other Rum players exodused to ursror\qarro to siege Hath of Tcol. when i noticed this i didn't like Baynights moving to usror so i objected and tried to block their town movements, then Rum leadership promised that it was to attack Tcol and not Ascn and they will move out after Tcol is removed.

6) However after Tcol was removed.. they sieged ncrow players who were allies to Ascn and forced to disband and merge with Ascn. (Their reason was Ncrow confed with Tcol but we think that reason was BS)

7) After this they started attacking our players in stormstone , settled towns with 5sqs of our players.. The option they gave was exodus or loose towns, we managed to get most of the towns out, but our allies AA lost couple of towns.

8) Then they started attacking our players in Trome. The option they gave was exodus or loose towns or join them. 

9) After all these we still didn't attack their towns. 

10) They started expanding into Qarro near our players, we didn't raise any concern this time and we were minding our own stuff.

11) we took part and used lot of troops on Nov-20 tournament, they noticed this and sent troops from bl to siege our players in qarro. They dropped 4m troops on our doorstep. we managed to save 1 town but lost another.

12) After this we moved few towns to support our players up there.

13) They were attacking our players on regular basis. 

14) we performed some diplo missions, for which they sieged another ascn town on Jan 15.

15) Their attacks continued till Jan end. 

16) Asusual feb tourney started their attacks stopped , then on feb 25 they attacked our ally town. we scouted all their towns to see for any possible siege operations.

17) In response to this they razed code's town in tallimar on 3rd March

18) we moved few more towns right next to their doorstep. This combined with our diplo mission plus other external factors made them to start negotiate for ceasefire. we asked "baynights\luta exo out of north along with recently exodused towns into north".

19) while the negotiations were ongoing they still moved more towns in response to this, we attacked some of their towns and eliminated cavs and infantry.


Now PR stunt by posting in the forums to paint us as the aggressors and also threatening our players alt accounts which are in other alliances.



So basically this is my version of the events, I would like to see what Baynights version is.. because he didn't speak with us trying to correct the difference but instead chose to attack Ascn players.


As far as other parties concerned Grom\Raps\Duran etc.. Most of you don't know what exactly happened and each one has an advantage depends on what happens here, but i would like to request you not to complicate the issue. 

As I said this is a simple ego clash , where Baynights decided to attack Ascn because of the same.


In all these aggression\sieges Ascn members never launched a fient at Saints\Falln towns till last week , where we attacked multiple towns of falln.



Those are the events as it happened.


Now coming to other posts:

"To my knowledge Saints/Iron had an entirely good reason for the initial attacks... certainly better than the cacus belli for the Tcol/Rum war"

Can you elaborate the reason? I have been trying to understand that for a while now with no communication from the other side.

"I am not aware of any personal grievances of our members against anyone that was in nCrow. As you mentioned, it was simply a case of choosing to align with Tcol and to claim territory as a part of CDS. Although nCrow was not aggressive in this claim, they had Tcol's backing to raze anyone who entered, and Tcol had declared war against us. What was asked was simply to drop the confed. Their response was to disband the alliance. We cannot control how players choose to respond, but regardless it did stop any hostilities against their members. "

Pure BS. did you contact Ncrow and asked them to drop the confed before sieging them? I'm not aware of any military action from Ncrow side which supported Tcol or vice versa. The confed with Tcol was a forced once if my understanding is right.


"In the case of nCrow members who did lose cities (there were few), we are open to discuss repairing the damage. This will of course require us to repair our relationship first." 

There is no Ncrow left so good luck repairing the relationship


"There are players who have been wronged on all sides".

What wrong did Ascn do to your side? I'm seriously looking forward to you answering this point.



Finally:

After all the stuff you did we didn't go out and complain\whine, here you are on public forum pulling a stunt just after one attack from us.  Asking for peace and while negotiations are going on still moving towns into the area in question.

The problem here is going to be trust because past few times we trusted you it didn't end well for our players.

Once again these are my personal views\ opinions on the issue and doesn't reflect Ascn. An official statement will be made once the decision has been reached after discussing with council and members.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote rajput Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 16:31
Originally posted by BayNights BayNights wrote:

Although nCrow was not aggressive in this claim, they had Tcol's backing to raze anyone who entered, and Tcol had declared war against us. What was asked was simply to drop the confed. Their response was to disband the alliance. We cannot control how players choose to respond, but regardless it did stop any hostilities against their members. Unfortunately, certain accounts stayed in nCrow or moved to the alliance and still send attacks at our members today. 

In the case of nCrow members who did lose cities (there were few), we are open to discuss repairing the damage. This will of course require us to repair our relationship first.


First of all, I showed allot of restraint by not getting into this over past year. nCrow closed its door I considered it end of it. Had allot of other RL things going on to spend time and energy on a game.

nCrow neither asked for or attacked any city in Loashin or Tamarin or any other region. nCrow neither asked any city to be moved in or out, up or down, or even sideways. We already had diplo relationships with all major alliances with cities in these regions and we maintained those diplos. 

nCrow neither asked for or supported any offense initiated by TCol. Neither did TCol asked for any support from us. nCrow never traded with TCol, neither did TCol.

nCrow's object for confed with TCol was that we did not want to go to war with anyone, not the TCol, not Ta2in, not Aseir, not Saints, not whatever came before or after that. There was no will to fight, there was allot of inactivity among the members. There were multiple instances where Rooks were unavailable for 60 days or more continuously. So I really dont understand against whom we aggressed and how...

When nCrow confed with TCol, nCrow player cities were attacked in Meila and asked to move, we complied, later on that player went bye even after prestige offering or what not. Simultaneously 2-3 cities came under siege south elgea from BayNight, player went inactive bye. (So in 2020 is not the first time BayNight attacked nCrow).

Then came 2020, SilentWater's 2 cities came under siege. I contacted Mordred no reply. Contacted BayNight told me Mordred hasnt logged on. A day passes I asked again got a reply saying that the reason for siege is that we are allied with TCol so its fair game. At the same time I came to know that Mordred is alt of BayNight and he is been stalling all this time just to cause damage. They continued to siege more of nCrow towns, the sieged 2-3 town of Lord Antonna and 1-2 town in Ursor as well. 

To me after that exchange, there was not anything further to discuss with a person who started conversation with deceit. I looked at other options, ASCN was willing to support, so my priority shifted to that and making sure everyone was able to merge with ASCN.

So not few, nCrow lost many cities due to direct actions of BayNight & co.

Again this is not about nCrow it is ASCN matter. As Mano said the main issue is trust and there is very little to go on.


Warning! Author of this post has weird sense of humor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BayNights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 18:18

We appreciate the discussion. These are very long replies, and I don’t believe we need to go through 5 years of Illy history to arrive at the peaceful decision we are proposing if that’s what players would like. That being said, I will do my best to address some incorrect information and some points I feel need to be addressed.


BTW Baynights good PR stunt. I have been trying to reach out and solve the problem peacefully for past few months, but you never replied properly even in one occassion or was open to discussion.


Spektor reached out to propose peace directly to you on 3.8.21. Before then, we did not feel the situation had escalated to a point where peace talks were needed, and I have no communication from you on this matter (please send if so). 

Our members had moved on from past instances with terras and blocking our cities and were focused on operations against Tcol. Several million troops had marched to grom’s cities when Ascn decided to attack us in earnest.


Saints then joined g! , Baynights sieged Ryklaw which made him to quit the game.


Siege? Ryklaw did not lose a single city or even have a single cat land at his towns when he abandoned. He had a total of 1 city in Tallimar. Who abandons the game on the unwarranted fear of losing 1 city when you’ve played for years? Please provide something to support this claim, as it’s something you like to state to your members often.


when i noticed this i didn't like Baynights moving to usror so i objected and tried to block their town movements,


One of our members was kicked from BSH after grom decided to shut down the alliance, and shortly after was targeted in Kul Tar with sieges. We helped defeat Tcol’s siege attempts and he escaped to the north with all his cities for safety. Shortly after, Hath settled his cities nearby and started harassing and razing innocent members of Rum. We decided to support this player in razing Tcol out of the region. They sent more cities in response which we also promptly removed. During this time, you admittedly tried to stop our efforts by blocking our cities by creating multiple accounts and using inactive sat players. You inserted yourself and multiple accounts in a conflict you had no reason to be in. This was a conflict with Tcol, and it didn’t involve you.


However after Tcol was removed.. they sieged ncrow players who were allies to Ascn and forced to disband and merge with Ascn. 


Correct in that we sieged nCrow players due to their CDS land claim and association with Tcol. Our policy is simple and we have stated it, if you the player are plotting against us by aligning with enemies who have declared war against our members, there is no alliance to hide behind or false stories to protect you. We will raze your gold accounts (as they do not help the game), and we will treat you as the enemy (because you are). If you would not like this to happen, do not support or establish diplomatic ties to our enemies. This includes harboring their gold accounts.


After this they started attacking our players in stormstone


Correct, we decided as an alliance to claim Stormstone and to secure the territory of Trome with an allied team. It was apparent at this point that your actions could not be trusted and were supportive of Tcol. We would not allow towns this close to behave in this way.


After all these we still didn't attack their towns. 


You and certain members sent many attacks at this time, many directly at my cities from your cluster at long distances. Happy to share reports.


They started expanding into Qarro near our players


As is already obvious from above statements, our members were already there and experiencing aggression from mano and Hotattack, who were actively blocking and attempting to save Tcol.


we performed some diplo missions, for which they sieged another ascn town on Jan 15.


You used .azuk (again we have reports), an account that sits in nCrow but I understand was passed to your ownership by questionable means. .azuk diplo’d almost every single city in the north (some were caught) while our troops were again fighting Tcol in the desert. Yet again, Ascn leadership (we do not blame every member of Ascn for these actions as they are likely unaware of what you’re doing based on what you tell them) was actively targeting us during a war with Tcol to support the enemy.


In response to this they razed code's town in tallimar on 3rd March


Correct, I reached out to Hotattack at this time and asked him to cease hostilities (in igm). His response on 3.1.21 was “who is azuk?” and the attacks continued. We went forward with this operation as stated that we will target every single member if they choose to remain in Ascn and support your behavior.


while the negotiations were ongoing they still moved more towns in response to this, we attacked some of their towns and eliminated cavs and infantry.


Correct, you violated our peace talks by stating that “it was still being discussed” and surprise attacked our members. Your intentions are now clear, and your members will no longer be granted the trust that we showed you.


As far as other parties concerned Grom\Raps\Duran etc.. Most of you don't know what exactly happened and each one has an advantage depends on what happens here, but i would like to request you not to complicate the issue. 


Hahahaha… The issue has become quite complicated and will remain so. Ascn has violated diplomatic trust by abusing confed/nap status of EE (now dropped), Bunch (to send attacks), VTX (to claim sov and settle next to our cities to actively target our members), Plan (to again settle next to our cities) and nCrow (for mano to send attacks and cities from .azuk). I hope that each of these alliances actively reconsiders being used for war-like efforts against our members. Please consider dropping diplo ties to an alliance that chooses to abuse them. It will be remembered, and Falln often doesn’t forget.


Our allies are united in our goals and right now you are attempting to stand in the way of them. Asking them to not “complicate the issue” is really quite hilarious.


As I said this is a simple ego clash , where Baynights decided to attack Ascn because of the same.


No ego, I have proposed peace for your alliance members and have accepted responsibility where we can. We continue to propose peaceful options for Ascn while you “decide”.


There is no Ncrow left so good luck repairing the relationship


You cannot speak for the actual nCrow members (and .azuk doesn’t count, who continues to attack us). If nCrow members would like to connect, please reach out to us directly.


After all the stuff you did we didn't go out and complain\whine, here you are on public forum pulling a stunt just after one attack from us.  Asking for peace and while negotiations are going on still moving towns into the area in question.

 

The problem here is going to be trust because past few times we trusted you it didn't end well for our players.

 

Once again these are my personal views\ opinions on the issue and doesn't reflect Ascn. An official statement will be made once the decision has been reached after discussing with council and members.


It looks like your “discussions with council and members” is going well! It must be some discussion to take 3 weeks. Please continue to abuse our cease fire and proposed NAP by targeting our members, while saying that you can’t trust us.


Although we have extended our peace offer, we are starting to tire of your games. Your leadership is continuing to attack us and abuse our many offers. I trust that your discussions will end soon as this situation will not be endured for much longer.


If individual members of Ascn would like to reach out to discuss terms, please feel free. This is not the situation we were hoping for.


23 Mar 2021 15:02 - FW: Victorious defense by Promethee's forces at Fortress of Tarnost under attack by HotAttack's forces from Q Nancy c1 60 cav par 


23 Mar 2021 05:32 - FW: Failed defense by Promethee's forces at Fortress of Tarnost under attack by HotAttack's forces from Q Nancy c1 60 cav par


21 Mar 2021 06:51 - FW: Failed defense by Promethee's forces at Fortress of Tarnost under attack by Pure's forces from Shush Now


18 Mar 2021 12:06 - Failed defense by BayNights's forces at Cerberus under attack by .Azuk's forces from ..f.tdz42-Kissimmee

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BayNights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 18:47
Rajput - understood and thank you for the background on nCrow (we are no experts in nCrow history). In the future I would suggest that if you confed/nap with an alliance at war, be sure to at least reach out and discuss with the alliance they are warring against so they know your intentions. Tcol stated this was a much larger land claim and touted CDS as under their control.

If SilentWater and LordA would like to discuss rebuilding support we are happy to have them reach out directly to help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 19:05
We always explained the CDS was a shared initiative with each alliance having the responsibility for and sovereignty over their own provinces. The confed with nCrow was most certainly not a forced one. If anything it functioned like an extended NAP. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote player 1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 20:47
ill just leave this here 
   


                     03 Sep 03:31]<Sir Bradly> they have little fight in them
[03 Sep 03:31]<BayNights> had my finger on the abandon but decided to carry on
[03 Sep 03:31]<Fiona> haha ikr
[03 Sep 03:32]<BayNights> yeah I guess ascn is sending at least
[03 Sep 03:32]<Sir Bradly> lol
[03 Sep 03:32]<Sir Bradly> ok I m out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Snagglepuss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 21:32
at the peril of "getting involved", I would like to point out that I am in the unique position of knowing two sides of the story, having been on the TCol Leaders Council, and having been the leader of Ta2in. 

While nCrow may never have actively participated in actions of military importance, it isn't exactly true to claim that there were no plans for such?? It was simply not to be, as the members of nCrow never got motivated or organized into the position in the CDS that they were originally supposed to realize. 

Baynights and I have fought for 4 years. I have basically fought Baynights with most of the people commenting on this post, and I have fought against the other half. I have known my passion for this game and the style I play has led me down roads that every single one of you has questioned at least once. I have put the past aside, despite instances (most were self inflicted) far worse than anyone has explained in this post, and tried to make it as right as I could. I know some of you will never forgive me for some of my behavior, but that's on you. 

I fight with Baynights because we have a common interest. and, as always, I will support him the way I do everyone else that stands with me.


5 year grudges, man??? Some of you are letting this game eat you up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBillPN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 21:51
Originally posted by BayNights BayNights wrote:


Hahahaha… The issue has become quite complicated and will remain so. Ascn has violated diplomatic trust by abusing confed/nap status of EE (now dropped), Bunch (to send attacks), VTX (to claim sov and settle next to our cities to actively target our members), Plan (to again settle next to our cities) and nCrow (for mano to send attacks and cities from .azuk). I hope that each of these alliances actively reconsiders being used for war-like efforts against our members. Please consider dropping diplo ties to an alliance that chooses to abuse them. It will be remembered, and Falln often doesn’t forget.



On behalf of The Atreides Bunch [Bunch], we have not, do not, and will never condone such attacks against another alliance without any warning, notice or approval. Any such attacks have been made without our knowledge, and are not representative of who we are. We are a peaceful alliance and always will remain so, with any and all military might we possess used to participate in tournaments. 

I assume it is this attack you are referring to:

Originally posted by BayNights BayNights wrote:


21 Mar 2021 06:51 - FW: Failed defense by Promethee's forces at Fortress of Tarnost under attack by Pure's forces from Shush Now



Even though I am not the leader of Bunch, it was I that approved Pure's entry to Bunch as a place to stay for a peaceful member of an alliance I was once part of over three years ago. It was entirely my recommendation that they were allowed to join, with no other greater knowledge amongst the alliance members. Pure has since left Bunch and regardless of which side of this is telling the truth, Bunch will not become involved to even the smallest degree. 


As professional as this statement sounds, I am not the representative of Bunch and I am most certainly not the leader (Misty + Paul are our most wonderful commander in chiefs). I felt that it was on me to say something since it was me who was most directly responsible for the member you have mentioned existing within our alliance. If the leaders of Bunch would like to add anything to this statement, they are very welcome to, although I suspect it would mostly be to clarify our desire to remain out of any entanglements and maintain our peaceful existence making not nearly enough cows and beer. 

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