And when the going gets tough...... |
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Mr Damage
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Topic: And when the going gets tough......Posted: 03 Mar 2014 at 04:04 |
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Agreed, so lets get it over with.
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HonoredMule
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1650 |
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Posted: 02 Mar 2014 at 22:17 |
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Both sides have indeed clearly stated their positions, made their decisions, and are sticking to them. There is, however, no such nonsense as "onus" based on current outcome. That's as sensible a moral compass as "might makes right."
Personal responsibility never goes away.
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"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
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Deranzin
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Posted: 02 Mar 2014 at 20:31 |
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As you can see I am as perplexed by all this "surrender" or "cease fire" or whatever discussion every day, as you are. The positions are clear from both sides and I clearly do not see what is the point in beating around the bush ... Something I disagree with you though is that fighting and standing up for what you think is correct has nothing to do with pride, but I do not think that such a point of view is something to argue over ... just a matter of personal style/point of view imho ...
Yes ... we know ![]() Edited by Deranzin - 02 Mar 2014 at 20:31 |
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scaramouche
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Posted: 02 Mar 2014 at 20:19 |
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NO..I dont do the Fandango!
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Deranzin
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Posted: 02 Mar 2014 at 18:00 |
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I do not propose that, but beating a dead horse of a topic again and again, day in and day out is imho tedious especially when we all know that actual diplomacy on the forums was never achieved even in better days |
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Mr Damage
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Posted: 02 Mar 2014 at 17:52 |
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Sounds good D, lets close the forum then.
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Deranzin
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Posted: 02 Mar 2014 at 10:52 |
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Hehehe good for you, I say ... now if this is really so, can you all stop pestering us with surrendering when our side has explicitly explained why there will be no such thing .?. ![]() Not surrendering is our decision (for various reasons). Destroying everyone that does not surrender, is your decision (for various reasons). We all know the consequences of our actions and choice, so let us leave it at that and play the game as we all chose ... how about that .?. ![]() |
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Mr Damage
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Posted: 02 Mar 2014 at 10:39 |
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The only reason that people/alliances weren't destroyed further or even completely in the Consone war is because they surrendered. Your people HM stated it plainly in GC on many occasions, I remember clearly a certain person telling GC that pride was the only thing preventing Consone members from escaping the war. By foregoing our pride we could reach terms of peace, otherwise you would continue razing our cities until we changed our minds. So berate your opponents all you like and try and make them out to be far worse than you ever were but reality is the majority aren't buying it, hence your current position. No it doesn't have to be this way but you have a decision to make that can alter the path of which we are headed. Over to you.
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HonoredMule
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Posted: 02 Mar 2014 at 07:47 |
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Then perhaps harboring grudges and nurturing emnity is not a good look for you. I do not assert that you have done so, but your present position does little to suggest otherwise. You being back at full strength in six months after fighting against us is as it should be. Six months rebuilding (presumably without prestige since it was only 2 cities) is sufficient consequence to Consone war decisions and actions, and I recall asserting that was the time frame we both predicted and sought for your recovery. You being involved in another war now is a completely separate issue once again reflecting your own continuing decisions and actions after that point (an outcome we semi-expected and found acceptable, but did nothing to promote). No one can domesticate a warrior but himself. While plenty of people are out to paint a different picture now, avoiding conflict with Harmless has never been difficult nor required much more than some common courtesy and a vague sense of fairness. For the sake of past foes who have chosen more harmonious post-war paths, I have no regrets for carefully limiting both wartime and post-war punitive costs. ---- People fight for fun, for hate, or for justice. Whether you think we must be annihilated therefore depends on what our hate and/or sense of justice would induce us to do both now and later, balanced against what you are willing and/or able to face from us both now and later. If we must be annihilated to prevent what we would do, then we presumably feel that given a choice, we cannot allow you to get away with what you have already done. In some specific individual cases at least, I cannot say otherwise. There is no certainty for anyone, nor has there ever been any in previous wars. There is, however, a track record regarding both how and by whom wars are started and ended - and from that, an already emerging certainty that ours will compare most favorably against yours. For all the bawling, what we do to our enemies has proven very survivable even in terms of staying in the same economic/military class. In this regard, whether people surrender is quite irrelevant, for in the Consone war our limits came into play in a big way long before anyone ever did. Even so, were we to somehow beat these 5:1 odds, we'd have to think long and hard where we draw the lines between social training, justice, and revenge this time. What do you do with someone who cannot be rehabilitated toward even the remote prospect of future peaceful coexistence, and by what measurement do you identify such cases? It's not even an assessment we've considered since Diablito. No doubt our active combatant enemies reside along a broad spectrum from toeing the party line to "all in." Forget Harmless's moral compass - when was the last time any player held a grudge against an enemy that bowed out when he was winning? And whether it is justice or just revenge, I don't feel terribly compelled to suffer continued coexistence with the latter case, except for one thing; one thing you can never take from us no matter the destruction is our leadership by example. So if you don't want future wars, and you aren't personally responsible for orchestrating this one, then yes annihilation is one of your options. But don't misrepresent it as the only one. That is only true for a very select few ringleaders and puppeteers on your side - the ones whose continued influence on the game or at least the diplomacy of its major players is just not feasible nor healthy for anyone on either side. And if they get their way, at least our coexistence with them will be happily discontinued without us even having to make those kinds of hard, example-compromising decisions. |
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Ander
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Posted: 02 Mar 2014 at 07:13 |
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![]() I agree with you that it is not a pleasant thing to destroy someone else's work. Where were you when Harmless and NC were sieging cities of surrendered opponents, including dozens of cities of your former alliance? Nothing like your own karma catching up to you
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