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An Open letter to H? rank and file

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KillerPoodle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KillerPoodle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 05:07
Originally posted by HATHALDIR HATHALDIR wrote:

The point of this post is to show the players of H? that their opposition had made some steps towards looking for a peaceful settlement. A conversation in GC led me to beleive that some  members were not aware of the details of the offer.


Nope - it's a publicity stunt.

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It also had the benefit of us showing some transperancy in our negotiations. This was convenient that all of Illy gets to read it as well.


I've already said this once - if you're really interested in transparency then post all the agreements so far.

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However this only details our effort to stop the conflict. Illy has shown that people declaring war and losing pay reparations.
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Guys the first step forward is to accept other people do things differently. No-one playing this game is intrinsicly evil. We have different languages, upbringings, cultures, education, families, work, political persuaisions, no-one needs a dispensation for doing things differently


Pick a story and try to stick with it.

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Eagles did a lot of dying in that time.

A huge exaggeration - and the reality was a drop in the ocean compared to the current war as evidenced by your ability to wage war not so long after you did "lots of dying"

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At no stage have we questioned the people in H? as to their account operators, we have taken it on faith when someone replies to an IGM. To refuse an offer of surrender then question ditto's veracity seems a slap in the face. If you reject the offer then it doesn't matter who wrote it.


You've had no reason to question we are who we are - it's pretty obvious there is continuity of posting in game, on forum etc.  On the other hand I have intel about Ditto which is looking more and more accurate as the days and weeks pass without any verifiable indication he's still playing. In short - you can get all huffy and pretend it's an insult to cover up for his no-show but it's not really fooling anyone.
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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KillerPoodle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KillerPoodle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 04:59
Hath - are you really saying that the tens of billions in gold you've already extorted from participants in the war was not sufficient?
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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HATHALDIR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HATHALDIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 03:50
Not that i don't love my Eagles!
Quick Save!
There's worse blokes than me!!
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HATHALDIR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HATHALDIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 03:49
Give me an alliance with 99 Forries please
There's worse blokes than me!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Forrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 03:38
Just for the record... these are my personal thoughts and should not be considered the views of H? or indeed any of their members... (I should have been a lawyer Wink lol)

My reason for staying in H? is simple:

I like the people here, they are my friends.

It would appear to me I currently have two options, leave my friends and keep my cities or lose my cities and keep my friends. Being fully aware of the consequences I choose to stay with my friends.

I am largely unaware of the origin of the personal differences between players, but that is not relevant to me nor is their rationale for making any decision. I trust my leadership and that is all I need/want to know.

Whether or not the offered surrender terms are reasonable or not is also not relevant to me. As far as I know every war, large or small, ended with surrender terms, but wars began again, sometimes with the same people and/or in a short period of time. This says to me they are pointless and therefore any discussion on their merits equally as pointless. Just because it has always been the case is not a good reason to continue the practice.

In a short while I will be under siege again and may lose that city. While that happens I will be chatting with my friends. To me losing a city is a small price to pay to be able to do that.

Cheers Forrie
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HATHALDIR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HATHALDIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 02:23
The point of this post is to show the players of H? that their opposition had made some steps towards looking for a peaceful settlement. A conversation in GC led me to beleive that some  members were not aware of the details of the offer.

It also had the benefit of us showing some transperancy in our negotiations. This was convenient that all of Illy gets to read it as well.

Siji has most eloquently stated his reason for staying in the war (but please come back to forums much sooner, you are a good read) and one can only respect him for them.

However this only details our effort to stop the conflict. Illy has shown that people declaring war and losing pay reparations. If it is a matter of pride and dignity then they can pretty much swallow theirs like they forced us to do in the last war, after launching over 1000 attacks when terms were asked for, then taking over three weeks to reply. Eagles did a lot of dying in that time. The fact that H? refuses to surrender has shown to be something that can only be influenced from inside their alliance, as is their perogative, (anyone can play the game how they like).

At no stage have we questioned the people in H? as to their account operators, we have taken it on faith when someone replies to an IGM. To refuse an offer of surrender then question ditto's veracity seems a slap in the face. If you reject the offer then it doesn't matter who wrote it.

So where does this leave us, well it looks like its an irresistable force meeting an unmoveable object. We seem to be holding all the cards and have put our best offer forward, the other side has said they will not pay reparations, which are easily affordable by them. Regardless of their motivations H? declared war upon us.

And to paraphrase an IGM sent to me 24 hours before H? declared war on us, I cannot believe i am doing this and the others will kill me if they find out, but here is a final offer, accept the peace offer and compensate the Grand Alliance for their losses and you can walk away from this situation before you find yourself on the losing end and much worse off than the last conflict.
(subject to negotiationWink)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SunStorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 02:16
I apologize for speaking in ignorance since I know very little about all that is truly going on (though I sadly might know more than some of the people that have already posted), but here are a couple points that would be great to get some clarification on.
 

Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:

. . . In a game where it takes years to fully build up an account, wiping them out reduces Illy to the same games we all left. . . . I'm going to post this one last time, H never allowed the mass destruction of entire accounts, we set limits and knew when to stop.
Is anyone here qualified to speak against this claim?  As long as I have known H?, this has always been true.

Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

The bottom line is that more H? members, accounts, towns, and those of our allies have been wiped out in this war than all the other wars in Illy combined.
This might be slightly exaggerated; regardless, since I have been away for way so long, is there anywhere online where a total tally of cities razed/claimed on both sides of this dispute have been recorded?  Seeing the total destruction in black and white would be wonderful for putting things into perspective.

Originally posted by Siji Siji wrote:

. . . Refusal of peace agreements does not necessitate destroying all cities and accounts in H? . . .
A truly Grand Alliance wouldn't advocate this option (IMO).  Has this really become the stance of the GA? 

Originally posted by Korben Dallas Korben Dallas wrote:

. . . fighting is inevitable, losing is inevitable, it's how the leaders deal with it that keeps everyone together.
No clarification needed - well said!

If anyone is qualified to speak on these, I would be interested to know more.  However, it is merely for my own curiosity as I am not involved and have no means of offering help to either side.  Again, I wish nothing but the best for both sides.

Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:

. . . We keep meticulous records of all our wars
(^_^)  I can vouch for this!  One of Harmless' strong points.    
"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Starry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 02:02
I disagree and have the records to prove it.    We keep meticulous records of all our wars, cities lost by H, allies and yes, foes.    I know for a fact, Jasche left due to RL issues and while H took 2-3 cities, we stopped taking more; the account stayed in VIC as a sat account and the cities were later taken by VIC members.   

This illustrates another issue I have with your conduct in this war, you aren't keeping records of how many players have lost cities, how many accounts have been sieged out of this game because you don't care.   I find it a sad commentary on your attitude toward this game and the years of effort players put into it.   In the future, please have the proof to back up your statements, if you have any.

So yes, you may win this war and siege us out of the game but will you win in the future?    Congratulations, you and your group have permanently changed the game, no account is safe from total destruction.  :)        Does this remind anyone of Evony or Travian?   Ermm


Edit:  Welcome back nvp, thank you for reminding us that at one time, sieging players out of the game was not something the players in this game would allow.   Good luck in the game.


Edited by Starry - 30 Jun 2014 at 02:05
CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless?

"Truth never dies."
-HonoredMule

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HATHALDIR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HATHALDIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 01:27
Sorry CK, all those players were victims of the war
There's worse blokes than me!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Kindly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014 at 01:02
Originally posted by Spheniscidae Spheniscidae wrote:

On a side note - since we are rehashing the "driving people from the game" thing - where is Kurdruk? Cpt. Ganoes Paran? Jasche?

For the record, the player Captain Ganoes Paran left the game by himself. Even before the Consone war, IIRC. He couldn't be online much anymore. I think this was because he lives in Greece (and thus money issues), and things haven't been exactly fortunate there over the last few years. One of my alliancemates in HUGcr, also from Greece, had the same problem until recently. 

Just saying.


Edited by Captain Kindly - 30 Jun 2014 at 01:04
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