All I Am Saying Is Give Peace A Chance

Arian wrote: Unilateral rules posted by Honoured Mule or Killer Poodle and not agreed to in advance by any other party are just propaganda.

it may be propaganda, but it is "just propaganda" only if the rules are not followed. if they are, then they are also rules of engagement. anything posted that favours one's own side can be called propaganda...that does not in itself rule out some other significance.

Arian wrote: some were threatened with losing everything - so I'm not sure what the difference is between then and now that everyone keeps alluding to.

i also remember this comment, from KP if memory serves. (i am not sure i see much difference between then and now, which is troubling in its own right.)

Arian wrote: No amount of spin will change things - if a player or an alliance surrenders no more cities will be lost

this would seem to be simply untrue if it's intended as a statement about "business as usual" in illy wars. many players have lost cities to surrender, some more than they have lost to war. is this intended as an offer specific to John Louis? is Team B requiring only exodus and not razings as a matter of policy? (and if so, would stating that be "just propaganda"?  )

edited to fix my confusion between Team A and Team B. can we use Edward and Jacob next time?


Edited by Angrim - 02 Mar 2014 at 22:10

Deranzin wrote: Aurordan wrote: Deranzin wrote:   Also, calling people ignorant just because they happen to have some different facts from you, is a bit of a bad form imho ...  HAHAHAHAHAHA But that's the exact definition off... Oh nevermind.  Funny indeed ... because: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ignorant because ignorance is LACK of knowledge on an issue and definitely not when you have DIFFERENT knowledge on that issue ... so you are actually laughing while being mistaken ...

Well, you're calling it "different" information, but it's really just information that she has and you lack, so I'm comfortable call that usage correct.

John Louis My problems in repetitive allusion to a real life war situation stem from the Consone war when players allied to H? started using terms like War Criminal and calling people Nazi's and in one somewhat disreputable case calling a member of Consone leadership by the same name as a Nazi war criminal. 

I am very grateful to all the helpful comments here, I can see some players are genuinely considering where we go from here.

With respect, I would like to discuss the following points:

@ Halcyon – nothing prevents me from personally surrendering, except my values. I am exploring the remote possibility that both Team A and B may want an end to this war. Given that Team A has already lost more than that the losers from past wars – what does Team B hope to gain other than the personal satisfaction of making past enemies surrender to them. In my view, this is pure revenge (plain and simple). So I suggest, put personal vendettas to one side and negotiate a real peace that will satisfy everybody – this is within sight, the moment is here, both sides just need to take a leap of faith and grab that opportunity before it is gone. It is clear, however, that surrender is just not possible, it is not even clear at this point what surrender would mean. Team B already has its pound of flesh, if you take any more there really will be nothing left of Team A (and most say that they do not want an Illy without Team A – so ball is in Team B's court). Poetically speaking, I now quote Lauren Hill, "What you want might make you cry, but what you need might pass you by, if you don't catch it...". The time for real peace is upon us, don't let it pass us by!

@ Jenin – thank you for your comments, however, I cannot agree with your assertions. Some may think that I am just spewing rhetoric, but I am trying to be genuine. I have been in NC many years, I have never seen them bully anybody...unless you include harassing bullies themselves. NC does harass bullies such as alliances/individuals trying to force Newbs to do as they say. Jenin, you compare NC to Black, but have you seen your own alliance's page? BANE is a mercenary alliance, you are currently under contract, its here for all to see: http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Alliance/760 . In Latin we say res ipsa loquitur (not the Illy alliance, I should point out, but the words mean "the thing speaks for itself"). Perhaps you need to start with the man (or woman) looking back at you in the mirror before making these types of accusations against NC. But, irrespective of points of view, I do hope we can work with one another at finding a true and lasting peace, that is what this post is about after all – are you prepared to discuss that without flinging ideological arguments about and making a huge mess in the process?

@ Mahaut & Rill – Rill, maybe I am mistaken but I thought I saw a post of yours (now deleted methinks) arguing like Mahaut that my words regarding a scorched earth policy were ridiculous and even hurtful. Rill, if I am mistaken I apologize and then this reply is only meant for Mahaut. Please do not take what I say personally, however, this game is a community (perhaps like the International Community in real life) and there is a war element, especially at this moment in time. Accordingly, analogies to real life war situations are only natural and appropriate. If you have been traumatized as a result of real life experiences, or wars going on in real life that you see in the news, maybe you need to take a step back. I have friends who have experienced real life wars and they are nowhere near as sensitive as some people who make accusatory posts in Illy. This is a game, and words are just words (most of the time). It makes for interesting reading, however, so long as people are not hypersensitive all of the time.

@ Spheniscidae – This war need not drag on unless and until one side surrenders – Ceasefire is a perfectly reasonable alternative. It opens the way for discussions in good faith and may bring about a more lasting peace than a much resented surrender (this resented surrender has happened before, which is why we are where we are now). Also, I will write whatever I feel I should write, you are not my editor or censor so don't read what I have to say if it upsets you so very much.

@ Elmindra – wow, you must be one of the few who actually admit your participation in this war is about vengeance. Thank you for your honesty, I guess, though you say nothing which is conducive towards a peace settlement.

Finally, I think I should reiterate – Team B has criticized the peace terms prepared by Team A in past wars. If they genuinely believe this was so bad, why are they following the example of Team A. The world is in your hands, you think you can create a better Illy – well, show us the way. Lead by example instead of following what Team A has done in the past. You certainly have the capacity to take the lead/initiative from here on. Prove Team A wrong, show them you can be trusted, that you do want peace – that there can be a better Illyriad. If Team B can usher in a Golden Age for Illyriad through a peace written in good faith and good acts instead of the blood of Team A, now is the time to do it...I dare you!

Aurordan wrote: Deranzin wrote:   Also, calling people ignorant just because they happen to have some different facts from you, is a bit of a bad form imho ...  HAHAHAHAHAHA But that's the exact definition off... Oh nevermind.

Funny indeed ... because:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ignorant

because ignorance is LACK of knowledge on an issue and definitely not when you have DIFFERENT knowledge on that issue ... so you are actually laughing while being mistaken ...