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Corwin 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Location: Farshards
Status: Offline
Points: 310
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 Topic: agreeing to disagreements
Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 08:17 |
I want to call for a civil, and more polite language on the forums. We are all from different parts of the world, are of different age and social class, had different education, have a different gender and race and lived different lives and therefore have different opinions. The only thing we all have in common is that we like playing Illyriad (at least I think we do, correct me if I´m wrong there). I'm tired of people saying their right because they have more data saved, or because they have better knowledge of the english language. Uneducated people say sensible things to.
Everyone is free to state his/her opinion, but please don't claim yours is the right one. There is no right or wrong when it comes to opinions; let others have their own. I see too many posts from the same persons over and over again, stating the same thing over and over again, just because someone else didn't agree with it the first time. If they didn't after reading it the first time I don't think they will agree with you after saying it a thousand times. Esspecially not when they are told they are very wrong in their views and sometimes even get insults thrown at them.
Maybe not everyone in here is an adult, but I do believe everybody can act mature enough to let others speak and to think about their own words before responding like a jerk. Or, in case emotions got the upperhand and one did respond like a jerk, edit the post or apologize. If you don't agree with someone's words feel free to say so, but ignore the post (or person) if it makes you write things down that are inpolite. And don't think saying ten times that you disagree makes any more difference then saying it once.
Hopefully we can all agree we have disagreements, but we're all in this game together. Please keep it nice.
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Deranzin
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 845
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Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 08:37 |
 Corwin wrote:
I see too many posts from the same persons over and over again, stating the same thing over and over again, just because someone else didn't agree with it the first time. If they didn't after reading it the first time I don't think they will agree with you after saying it a thousand times. |
The whole point is not whether they will agree with you or not, but whether they actually read and understood your post on the first go.  Many discussions everywhere (not only in this forum) unfortunately go like that :  and just like with your granma you have to say again and again, "hey this is not what I said" in the vain hope that they will actually UNDERSTAND (agreeing with you at that point is utterly utopic).  And this is the GOOD case where people simply misunderstand ... if you account for all the deliberate spin, then things get even worse ... and no, I do not think that it is wrong to repeat what you said when someone deliberately goes out of his way to "misunderstand" you. Apart from that I totally agree that civil language and behavior is imho a must have for any discussion. 
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  Just like a "before and after" ad ! ahahahaah :p
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Corwin
Forum Warrior
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Location: Farshards
Status: Offline
Points: 310
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Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 09:16 |
If one person misunderstands you you can send a message to that person (without insults; not claiming you insulted people, but speaking in general) instead of repeating yourself for everyone else who understood it the first time. Keeps the thread clear. Using more words only makes it harder to understand what the original post was trying to say, and therefore only creates more misunderstandings. Then you have to explain yourself again, and others will misundestand. Then you have to explain yourself again to them and...
Not everyone here will understand what you're saying, but I don't see why that's a problem. I don't understand anything about economics, quantum physics and a whole lot more, but nobody will keep trying to explain it to me after they understand I won't ever get it.
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Deranzin
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 845
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Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 09:30 |
Corwin wrote:
If one person misunderstands you you can send a message to that person (without insults; not claiming you insulted people, but speaking in general) instead of repeating yourself for everyone else who understood it the first time. Keeps the thread clear. U |
And how do you know that .?. Not only there is no guarantee that this group of people are larger than those that misunderstood, but they rarely post to say "hey, I got that, it is ok" ... usually the party that misunderstands is the most vocal (and not only one person), so you have to reply again. And no, a public discussion, once there is a misunderstanding, must stay public and not revert to IGMs ... keeping the thread "clean" the way you describe it now would turn a forum into a blog
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Just like a "before and after" ad ! ahahahaah :p
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Corwin
Forum Warrior
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Location: Farshards
Status: Offline
Points: 310
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Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 10:07 |
i think we can agree we disagree on the subject and now give others the oppurtunity to speak
edit: I tried to explain myself better to deranzin by a sending him a private message
Edited by Corwin - 27 Feb 2014 at 10:10
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abstractdream
Postmaster General
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Oarnamly
Status: Offline
Points: 1857
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Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 17:31 |
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The forum is a discussion, or rather I believe it should be. Many who join in the discussion do so to forward their own views which contradict those of the OP. Actually, that's how a post gets interesting. It would be fairly boring if the only replies were from a handful of nodding heads.
Often, a discussion gets heated and arguments ensue. Disagreements can lead to hurt feelings and the other things you pointed out. Such is life. No one is required to follow the forums. I think many players don't even care to look at them much less read them. Decorum is a fine goal but we are human and it just won't stick.
Edited by abstractdream - 27 Feb 2014 at 17:32
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Bonfyr Verboo
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Hora
Postmaster
Joined: 10 May 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 839
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Posted: 28 Feb 2014 at 14:08 |
Yes, but there's definitely a border between a "heated discussion" and pure insults.
Anyone noticed, that nearly all threads concerning the war were closed due to insults?
And even without those it's hard to find real information in those war posts, as everyone seems to see different facts, without acknowledging the other facts as even partly true.
"Nobody needs to follow the forums".... Well yes, but even a level headed discussion between some respectful players gets bombarded with accusations from all sides! Other two or three players jump in, shout at each other, shoot out insults, and bamm => thread closed, and sadly with reason.
You simply CAN'T do normal discussions in this forums nowerdays. Half of the threads contain a post, where the author of the OP says "Sorry people, but I'm out, keep throwing (let's say "mud") around without me."
Edited by Hora - 28 Feb 2014 at 14:08
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Deranzin
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 845
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Posted: 28 Feb 2014 at 14:53 |
Hora wrote:
Anyone noticed, that nearly all threads concerning the war were closed due to insults? |
Imho this gives more strength to the people prone to insult others ... a policy of erasing the insult, keeping the thread to the right direction and sending all parties involved to the name-calling to a time-out (time ban from the forum), would clear and straighten this place faster than the current "I lock the thread, end every discussion, but I keep the inflammatory post for all to see, then time-ban" ... it should be made clear that people who follow the rules will be able to enjoy the service as is and that the level of dialogue will be protected, not merely highjacked and locked down ... 
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Just like a "before and after" ad ! ahahahaah :p
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abstractdream
Postmaster General
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Oarnamly
Status: Offline
Points: 1857
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Posted: 01 Mar 2014 at 02:57 |
Good thinking. That would do it quite well, in my opinion. We must remember that the forum is a public discussion. Real diplomacy is private. Here, we are pretty much arguing for argument's sake. For me, when I start a thread or post a reply it is to set the record straight as I see it. I have more often than not, refrained from posting at all when I have the visceral urge to respond to what I see here. It takes restraint and I am glad that I didn't 100% of the time that I don't and wish I hadn't most of the time that I do.
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Bonfyr Verboo
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Mr Damage
Postmaster
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 598
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Posted: 01 Mar 2014 at 05:05 |
Good idea Deranzin 
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