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Topic ClosedA statement from the Dwarven Lords...

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belargyle View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2012 at 23:14
No biggy.. I'm trying to answer what I can so people can understand both what, why, and how these things are being done. I appreciate the questions.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2012 at 23:05
Originally posted by belargyle belargyle wrote:

I did answer the question but it was to Rill. Here is what I posted:

"... The language of 'immediate removal' should be understood regarding the context of post in which I state we desire communication. This will precede any action, however if I need to make this more clear in the post, I can."


That's what I get for only briefly skimming your other posts. Sorry about that. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2012 at 22:53
Diplomacy is the key. All we need is communication.
Illy will not let us move a city through exodus within 10 squares of a yellow (neutral) city, or within 5 squares of a green (friendly) city. This can however be overruled by claiming sovreigny level 5. Sov lvl 5 takes over a week, and is costly if done from afar. It's easier and less costly to do a double exodus, but it still takes time.
This is where troops come into play. They need to occupy the square long enough to claim the sov, and is thereby visible and can be scouted. If I found such an occupying army close to my own city, then I would ask why, contact the player, and hopefully get a proper answer. If there is no answer, and I notice the sov levels climb, I would ask my alliance for help. That is why we won't accept troops on our land. Fighting NPC is one thing. Seiging a city (maybe with our permission) might be OK too, but ask first to make things easier. A tourney is usually limited to certain squares, and shouldn't be a problem either.

If someone settles a city close to my own without asking, I would send a message to that player, and ask why, what they want and so on. If the player is reasonable, there is probably no problem with it, but if they don't reply, or are hostile, then a document with our rules made public like this, would be very helpful.

Some areas are crowded. That is a fact. 
The 10 square rule is almost impossible to keep in such an area, but we must always talk about it. Setting up an agreement between two players about what squares each will claim sov for, is an excellent idea. I have done so myself, except the player I did it with has gone, and the cities have been whiped. We talk in the alliance as well, when moving cities, and ask for help to find the best spot depending on what we plan to do with that city.

I know that some people try to find fault with what others say. That is why we always need to talk, to clear up any misunderstandings. It's easy to make fun of statements set forth by alliances, that is part of the game of life, not just Illy. But the words need to be said and explained.

Look upon the 5 squares as the garden surrounding a house, and the 10 squares as the rest of the plot of land. It's easy to give away land to someone who is nice and asks, but when someone suddenly starts camping in your back yard without asking, you get upset.

We protect our gardens, our plots of land, even if there is no sov claimed on it yet. We plan ahead. Please don't step on our toes, and set up camp on our door-steps. That is all we ask.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2012 at 21:59
Originally posted by Brids17 Brids17 wrote:

Originally posted by Brids17 Brids17 wrote:

Originally posted by belargyle belargyle wrote:

The squares 6-10 are open to negotiations but no action, implementation, nor shall any troops may be upon Dlord territory without ‘prior’ authorization. Any such action, settlement, or armies claiming / counter-claiming will be removed immediately and with extreme prejudice.

What exactly do you mean by "immediately and with extreme prejudice"? Because to me, that sounds exactly like "without any notice" which I would hope is not the case. Also, if someone settles lets say, 9.X squares away (as in, counting tenths of squares) is that going to be an issue? It's a little ridiculous getting messages from upset players because someone settled 9.8 squares away from them.

Not sure if you missed this (it was the last post after all) but I would like a response to it...

I did answer the question but it was to Rill. Here is what I posted:

"... The language of 'immediate removal' should be understood regarding the context of post in which I state we desire communication. This will precede any action, however if I need to make this more clear in the post, I can."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2012 at 21:55
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Originally posted by nightfury nightfury wrote:

 
You like to ask questions and then expect answers, but you guys(crows) never make your position clear. let me ask a question to you. What is the position of crows in this matter? can I settle next to crow city without asking permission? what is the permissible distance?

I request DLORD and H? not to answer any of Brids Q's till he answer Crows position

he just asks and never makes things clear please ignore till he answers.


I posted my understanding of nCrow's position earlier in the thread, and I think I can speak for Ryelle and say that HUGcr shares the same general opinion.  Each Crow alliance is independent and therefore there is no single Crow position, but I don't think that one can complain that Crows have not contributed substantively to this discussion.  We are of course small alliances and have only 700 cities between us, so perhaps it is easy to overlook my comments.

With regard to HM's point about 10 squares allowing 5 squares for each city, this is true.  However, most cities will not want to claim 5 squares or will want to claim them selectively.  Thus my own personal practice when people want to move 5-10 squares away is to inquire about their future sovereignty plans and perhaps even come to a specific agreement.  

One player who wants a military city and another player who wants a production city could settle 3 squares away from each other and be perfectly happy, depending on the layout of the sovereignty bonuses.  This would probably be the exception rather than the rule at 3 squares distance, but would become quite common at 5-6 squares distance, particularly considering that such cities could presumably claim 10 squares in the direction the other city isn't.  So it depends on what other cities are already in the area and what those players' plans are.  That's why these "rules" should be put into practice flexibly with an effort to accommodate the greatest good for the most people -- which is something I generally see happening in Illy today.

All the above are good points and is why it is good to have these things in writing so others can at 'least' have a reference point in disputes, or a place to look at to know their position on certain actions.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2012 at 21:51
Originally posted by Taelin Taelin wrote:

May I ask for clarification regarding the applicability of Dwarven Lords territorial claim to existing cities?

Are you saying that someone who has a city within 10 squares of a Dlord city is now obliged to negotiate its continued presence even if no mention has been made of any difficulty with proximity hitherto?

or have I misunderstood? 

Great question. The answer is 'no'. This is a 'hereafter' document. All towns currently in proximity have already reached or worked out agreements in the main. But I would state it would be a good idea to have a written copy of an agreement (mail) between the two of you (or however many) to make sure all things work well for each others benefit.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2012 at 21:43
Originally posted by dunnoob dunnoob wrote:

Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

 a 10-square minimum between cities only reserves an average 5-square radius for personal sovereignty claims. 
 If I'd claim sov over all squares with a distance up to 5 squares I'd end up with 80 sov squares at a cost from 100 to 500 gold and 10 to 50 research points per hour and square.  

That should be somewhere near 30,000 gold and 3,000 RP per hour (?).  A library level 20 yields 1013 RP/h, so this plan would require more than one chancery level 20 and/or lots of books from less ambitious cities.


Who said anything about claiming all the squares?  If you have to resort to hyperbole to counterpoint, well...

Every account gets at most 10 cities and that's it.  After that it's all about how well we craft those cities.  Only a short-sighted person wouldn't be concerned about losing the freedom to hold whichever nearby sovereign squares are most valuable to the city's long-term specialization or short-term needs--both of which can change at any time.
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2012 at 21:03
May I ask for clarification regarding the applicability of Dwarven Lords territorial claim to existing cities?

Are you saying that someone who has a city within 10 squares of a Dlord city is now obliged to negotiate its continued presence even if no mention has been made of any difficulty with proximity hitherto?

or have I misunderstood? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2012 at 21:03
Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

 a 10-square minimum between cities only reserves an average 5-square radius for personal sovereignty claims. 
 If I'd claim sov over all squares with a distance up to 5 squares I'd end up with 80 sov squares at a cost from 100 to 500 gold and 10 to 50 research points per hour and square.  

That should be somewhere near 30,000 gold and 3,000 RP per hour (?).  A library level 20 yields 1013 RP/h, so this plan would require more than one chancery level 20 and/or lots of books from less ambitious cities.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2012 at 20:41
Originally posted by nightfury nightfury wrote:

 
You like to ask questions and then expect answers, but you guys(crows) never make your position clear. let me ask a question to you. What is the position of crows in this matter? can I settle next to crow city without asking permission? what is the permissible distance?

I request DLORD and H? not to answer any of Brids Q's till he answer Crows position

he just asks and never makes things clear please ignore till he answers.


I posted my understanding of nCrow's position earlier in the thread, and I think I can speak for Ryelle and say that HUGcr shares the same general opinion.  Each Crow alliance is independent and therefore there is no single Crow position, but I don't think that one can complain that Crows have not contributed substantively to this discussion.  We are of course small alliances and have only 700 cities between us, so perhaps it is easy to overlook my comments.

With regard to HM's point about 10 squares allowing 5 squares for each city, this is true.  However, most cities will not want to claim 5 squares or will want to claim them selectively.  Thus my own personal practice when people want to move 5-10 squares away is to inquire about their future sovereignty plans and perhaps even come to a specific agreement.  

One player who wants a military city and another player who wants a production city could settle 3 squares away from each other and be perfectly happy, depending on the layout of the sovereignty bonuses.  This would probably be the exception rather than the rule at 3 squares distance, but would become quite common at 5-6 squares distance, particularly considering that such cities could presumably claim 10 squares in the direction the other city isn't.  So it depends on what other cities are already in the area and what those players' plans are.  That's why these "rules" should be put into practice flexibly with an effort to accommodate the greatest good for the most people -- which is something I generally see happening in Illy today.


Edited by Rill - 19 May 2012 at 20:44
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