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Topic Closed31Mar13 Military Unit Production Time Adjustments

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Rorgash View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 22:40
the difference between getting your troops to a siege camp before the 12 hours then 3 days late is the difference between cav and infantry troops.. cav is VERY important
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 22:45
If idea for this update was to balance all races then maybe they should have change speed of units also.While some units apear to be more atractiv now like human infantry they are practicly useles in wars.Effectivnes of cavalry as best choice for siege removal is destroyed and no alternativ is offered to replace it since travel time was not considered in this changes.Alternativ could be infantry except with their speed they can never reach battle in time to attack siege camp.Devs simply did not considered that forming a siege alows well timed arrival of many players on same spot from distant parts of map, while attacking sieges means that real siege camp must first be detected and only then attacked which leaves verry little time for its removal and only unit that can do that is cavalry.For siege camp to be effectivly removed it must be destroyed within 36-48 hrs after first units arrive.With this update it can no longer be done since advantage will completly be on side of player who trains deff armies and it would not be posible to deliver concetrated cavalry attack on siege camp within needed time frame with any effect.Cavarly units were never too powerful, i think they were balanced as they should be considering role they have in conficts.Next time when devs make changes they should ask mе for advice so they dont repeat this kind of mistakes again :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 22:53
Heh, someone shook the sandbox :o)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 23:03
faster build times do not make spears stronger.  Nor does it allow a city to support a larger spear army.  It only allows replacement of losses quicker.  This is only important in sustained wars and offers the defender an opportunity to erode the attacker's cav armies over time through attrition.  Frankly, spears were pretty good at that already.  But cav will still dominate the battlefield in any single battle.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 23:13
I love this update!
�I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 23:17
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

faster build times do not make spears stronger.  Nor does it allow a city to support a larger spear army.  It only allows replacement of losses quicker.  This is only important in sustained wars and offers the defender an opportunity to erode the attacker's cav armies over time through attrition.  Frankly, spears were pretty good at that already.  But cav will still dominate the battlefield in any single battle.

I agree with this. I haven't yet made the calculations but it seems that usage of T1 troops for troop replacement in sustained wars is now feasible, even replacement for cav. Other than that all remains the same.

So, it actually promotes regional alliances in case of a sustained war.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 23:21
Rorgash - Sure, but with this release, cav would be less efficient  to break sieges (in terms of killing ration, in terms of building efforts compared to killing ratio,...). I recall this is based on the fact most sieged are setted on mountains and forests (and many cities have some mountains or forests touching it). So if you can't reach a siege in time with massive infantry armies, you will use cavalry by default.
But the point which has been developped by Sloter and myself is that is now even more effective to break a siege with infantry. But infantry is slow, so it favors regional alliances, who could break sieges more efficiently than more spread out alliances, which will use cavalry by default, which is less efficient.

I think it's goodd to develop territorialism. But some old and spread out alliance will suffer from their distance between players further more because of reduction of cav efficiency against sieges, and cavalry getting less useful in already regional alliances, that is sure. 

Cavalry can indeed break sally forths, and as JimJams rightly said, it's not that much used cause of wiping with cavs, as cities are mostly on plains. So here is an usefulness of cav i forgot about: players dont sally forth because they fear some cav attacks. Personnally, i think as JimJams: a city should be better defended, to make sally forth more attractive. The interest to put units in a sieged city is to sally forth... with infantry then: the infantry can come in the city before the siege starts, and then get rid of travel times from the start of the siege. I think that's what the idea the Devs had when they thought about the sailly forth stratagem. Though, even with sailly forth was more attractive due to more defendable cities, the use of feinted sieges makes the sailly forth stratagem irrelevant cause you dont know which city will be sieged for real... So im traying to demonstrate by A+B that cavalry could be extremely useful against saimly forth, but that as sailly forth cant really be used, and as general attacks on cities give almost 0 casualties to the target city, cavalry can only be used to break seiges on plains/small hills (but that doesnt represent the majority of the sieges), or be used to break sieges on Montains/forests, where it's getting less and less efficient. 

So yes, i support that Cav is getting less useful, and when it's used in war it's by default, on terrains on which they are really not efficient, in terms of build efforts, angainst the defense. The defense on Montains/forests already recovered way more easily than the Cav attack on Montains/forest before this update. Now it's really prohibitive to attack with cav on Montain/forests (which is normal of course), but then i think Cav should have something else to be useful for, if you know what i mean. How? Tough question.



Edited by opk - 31 Mar 2013 at 23:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 23:25
It is not the same as before....When you form siege you can call for players from tallimar and Ursor to meet up on same spot on exact date, it does not matter in which part of map they have towns.And when you try attack that siege you can only use players that are close to it.Only way for that sort of siege removal to work was for cavalry to have high attack against defending army, and that is nwo gone.With spear training time reduced cities can no longer be defended effectivly against sieges since player producing cavalry close to sieged town will never be able to match players who produce spears in two diferent parts of map and can field their armies on same spot.Infantry no matter how fast to train has very limited uses.
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Rill View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2013 at 23:59
I guess if they can't manage to release any new content or even have a tournament in the past six months or so, we should be glad they took 20 minutes to tweak a couple of numbers in the production time data array so it gives us all something else to fight over and talk about.

The phrase "fiddling while Rome burns" comes to mind.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2013 at 00:03
Personally, I feel beefing up defensive troops will encourage more aggressive gameplay.
Orcs can now produce nearly 45k t1 spears in a month (200% production bonus)/city and if 50 or so active mid sized orcs combine...they can successfully take on any alliance in elgea right now.

I am not sure if elves was the easiest race to play before (as their archers were weak against the unit they were most likely to face in the battle field) but now the only unit which can atleast hope to challenge them in  the battlefield is t1 elf archer.

As a human I would like to see our men at arms move faster (they are supposed to be less bulkier and have longer strides than dwarfs but still for some mysterious region they choose to travel slow or maybe they are just lazy Cry )

Atleast dorfs have that extra ordinaly ss sword and war axe to resort too but I won't mind if they get a little boost too




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[08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility
<KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove
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