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Topic Closed31JUL12 - MAJOR RELEASE (Crafting)

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Brids17 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2012 at 01:17
Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:

Well if that is the case, then explain the changes in March to T2 Cavs and change in terrain effects.  Anyone in the tourney can vouch for the changes made in the middle of the tourney and the results that ensued.   Races  are not balanced, haven't been since March.

They weren't balanced back in march either. It was no secret that elves had and in fact, still do have some of the best units in the game. Trueshots are hands down the best defensive units and their cavs and second only two humans. Giving them lesser equipment is hardly unbalancing things, if anything, it's re-balancing it. 

Besides, we still have no idea how much time and effort is needed in order to properly equip units.  I don't think it will be all the likely to find people decking out their armies in the best possible gear. I think the update may very well balance out the units. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2012 at 00:44
Originally posted by Quackers Quackers wrote:

Originally posted by Bonaparta Bonaparta wrote:

Originally posted by SugarFree SugarFree wrote:

i disagree bonaparta. even if orcs have weakest elite unit, all their other units (read fists, wolfriders and deathdealers) are quite badass. orcs have the greatest potential. 

Hm % bonus on weak units is just bad! Look at the big picture - Production cost and time per 1 attack or 1 defense point per weapon/armor and you will see orcs are again most penalized of all the races and where are this wolfriders you speak of? Even if you make one spear 100% more effective in hands of spearmen unit it would still be worse then in hands of knight....


There are more + spear troop production on the map then anything else. There are vast areas with some ok food that have nothing but + spear troop production around it. While I'm not suggestion claiming alot of that you could easily get over 200% spear troop production


You don't need +unit production squares to easily get over 200% bonus production.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2012 at 00:40
Originally posted by Bonaparta Bonaparta wrote:

Originally posted by SugarFree SugarFree wrote:

i disagree bonaparta. even if orcs have weakest elite unit, all their other units (read fists, wolfriders and deathdealers) are quite badass. orcs have the greatest potential. 

Hm % bonus on weak units is just bad! Look at the big picture - Production cost and time per 1 attack or 1 defense point per weapon/armor and you will see orcs are again most penalized of all the races and where are this wolfriders you speak of? Even if you make one spear 100% more effective in hands of spearmen unit it would still be worse then in hands of knight....


I agree, same reason I pushed to remove the percentage bonus to resource production (specifically food) from sovereignty buildings

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2012 at 00:38
Originally posted by Bonaparta Bonaparta wrote:

Originally posted by SugarFree SugarFree wrote:

i disagree bonaparta. even if orcs have weakest elite unit, all their other units (read fists, wolfriders and deathdealers) are quite badass. orcs have the greatest potential. 

Hm % bonus on weak units is just bad! Look at the big picture - Production cost and time per 1 attack or 1 defense point per weapon/armor and you will see orcs are again most penalized of all the races and where are this wolfriders you speak of? Even if you make one spear 100% more effective in hands of spearmen unit it would still be worse then in hands of knight....


There are more + spear troop production on the map then anything else. There are vast areas with some ok food that have nothing but + spear troop production around it. While I'm not suggestion claiming alot of that you could easily get over 200% spear troop production
Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so you will not be dependent on anybody.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2012 at 00:20
Originally posted by SugarFree SugarFree wrote:

i disagree bonaparta. even if orcs have weakest elite unit, all their other units (read fists, wolfriders and deathdealers) are quite badass. orcs have the greatest potential. 

Hm % bonus on weak units is just bad! Look at the big picture - Production cost and time per 1 attack or 1 defense point per weapon/armor and you will see orcs are again most penalized of all the races and where are this wolfriders you speak of? Even if you make one spear 100% more effective in hands of spearmen unit it would still be worse then in hands of knight....


Edited by Bonaparta - 02 Aug 2012 at 00:22

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2012 at 00:10
i disagree bonaparta. even if orcs have weakest elite unit, all their other units (read fists, wolfriders and deathdealers) are quite badass. orcs have the greatest potential. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2012 at 23:59
Originally posted by JimJams JimJams wrote:


I have to redo all the maths, may be I lost an year building Trueshots cities....


Hm? Now why would anyone make trueshot only cities? .... Well it's simple, it's way overpowered unit for a very low cost. The cost should be at least 2 leather armors like any other t2 ranged unit and some of the stats should be lowered... The other overpowered unit in the game is knight, but it's production costs are normal, so there is at least some balance. Another reason for this huge elf and human bonus is time to train units in aspect to their experience points. While you can train t2 archers and t2 cavalry at the same speed per experience point, you can't train other two specialist units so (for dwarfs t2 infantry and for orcs t2 spear). While this training times per exp points will not be changed there can be no balance between races. I'm afraid orcs are most penalized here. 

Crafting will not change this fact. In fact it will make it even worse, because we orcs have to produce more numerous armies of low quality troops to make it comparable to much smaller amount of human, dwarf and elf units. That means that large number of units will also need larger amount of weapons and armors. Trueshot (t2 elven archer) and clan guardsmen (t2 orcish spearmen) both need 1 leather to produce, but 1 crafted armor on trueshot is worth way more then 1 crafted armor on clan guardsmen, because all the basic statistics for trueshot are much better not to mention training time per exp point. I'm afraid that if you put a bit higher % bonus on bad basic stats this still makes it overall much more bad stats for equipped unit.

So I have a question for the devs. Why have you made bad situation for orcs even worse with this release?
Equipping low upkeep units is just waste of weapons and armors. For example if I give the same spear that has 10% attack bonus to knight, it will give 6.5 attack bonus per weapon or 13 in elite division. If I give the same weapon to kobold it will only give 0.9 attack bonus or 1.8 in elite division. Of course this is the same weapon and production times for it are the same? The same is true for armors.... Even 4 kobolds are not comparable with 1 knight except their upkeep. It is much more time consuming to make 4 kobolds then 1 knight and even before this update 1 knight was way better in every statistic then 4 kobolds. Shouldn't spearmen that use weapon especially made for them have the same bonus as the knights which historically didn't even use spears? Well 8% orcs on the server... I wonder if this % will be even smaller after this release? I'm certainly thinking of leaving like 2 other orcs from my alliance have done already...

Another aspect of this crafting business. It penalizes big players and rewards small players. Big players with 200K+ army will never be able to equip big percentage of the army, but small player might equip all of it. I have no objections regarding this aspect of crafting.


Edited by Bonaparta - 02 Aug 2012 at 00:09

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2012 at 23:58
o wow, now that elven are not overpowered, you ask for balance? you sissy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2012 at 23:18
Originally posted by Sister Nikki Sister Nikki wrote:

ok the one friendly Illyriad game has lost its simplicity. Also with every big well planned release the hunting season for bugs is opened.

simple a personal opinion.
 
I sympathise. Simple is always the straightforward way.
 
For me though the Major Releases always bring an exciting change to the game and open up new pathways for players to explore. Illyria is a developing game still. I think that is why so many of the community have remained entranced by it and remained for so long. 
 
But always the "pathways" concept has remained and  players are free to follow an increasing number of roles as individuals, in alliances  or even in cross cultural groups. A player still can follow the simple friendly networking way. They are even free to seek to convince others of its value but in a developing game nothing lasts forever...it becomes changed.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2012 at 23:06
Originally posted by Quackers Quackers wrote:

Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:


So much for the balance between races, that went out the window in March and this update just makes it worse.     I fail to see why Elven are yet again being penalized and especially in the jungle.    Would one of the Devs like to comment on the balance of the races we were promised early in the game?

Sorry but I'm extremely disappointed in the weapons for Elves especially for TrueShots.   

Maybe it's time to stop investing in this game. 


I say they did it right. They made it right by allowing elves to do great in forest. Jungle is just going to far. You can easily shoot a bow in the forest but I'd like to see you shoot a bow in a jungle.

Bah, you pretend reality, talking about a game, and elves? Elves.... 
And by the way the the penalty to those bows applies also on desert and arctic.
Both on offense and defense...

I have to redo all the maths, may be I lost an year building Trueshots cities....

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