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Bonaparta
Postmaster
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Milky Way
Status: Offline
Points: 541
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Posted: 03 Aug 2012 at 14:27 |
Ander wrote:
Brids17 wrote:
JimJams wrote:
Let anyone free to build any kind of unit of any race.
Problem solved. |
No, problem not solved. Then everyone will just build trueshots and knights and there will be absolutely no unit diversity. |
No, I would build trueshots and marshalls. I like marshalls more, for the 10% less attack than knights, they have 41% more speed.
For the penalty of 11% less speed, trueshots have 33% more attack than longbowman, 10-25% more defense than longbowman and costs one leather armour less than longbowman. And longbowman is probably the second best archer unit in the game.
If given a chance anytime, I'd instantly switch to an elf. |
Marshal is an option for t2 cavalry. I personally still like the knight better, because marshal is so dependent on chain armor, but then again trueshots don't need chain so you have extra in other cities.
You would switch to an elf? I bet it is not because they have the best units in the game, but because developers felt that those poor elves deserve another bonus namely 5% magic boost....
Edited by Bonaparta - 03 Aug 2012 at 14:30
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Ander
Postmaster General
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1269
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Posted: 03 Aug 2012 at 14:08 |
Brids17 wrote:
JimJams wrote:
Let anyone free to build any kind of unit of any race.
Problem solved. |
No, problem not solved. Then everyone will just build trueshots and knights and there will be absolutely no unit diversity. |
No, I would build trueshots and marshalls. I like marshalls more, for the 10% less attack than knights, they have 41% more speed.
For the penalty of 11% less speed, trueshots have 33% more attack than longbowman, 10-25% more defense than longbowman and costs one leather armour less than longbowman. And longbowman is probably the second best archer unit in the game.
If given a chance anytime, I'd instantly switch to an elf.
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lokifeyson
Forum Warrior
Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 211
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Posted: 03 Aug 2012 at 06:47 |
Orcs done right are great at cav def, which is the best attack unit in game, so we have that i guess...but also restricts our gameplay...
and wolfriders are greatest cav def commander.
Edited by lokifeyson - 03 Aug 2012 at 06:48
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Salararius
Postmaster
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 519
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Posted: 03 Aug 2012 at 00:54 |
How about just letting anyone pick whatever race they want...oh
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Brids17
Postmaster General
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
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Posted: 03 Aug 2012 at 00:50 |
JimJams wrote:
Let anyone free to build any kind of unit of any race.
Problem solved. |
No, problem not solved. Then everyone will just build trueshots and knights and there will be absolutely no unit diversity.
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JimJams
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 496
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Posted: 03 Aug 2012 at 00:10 |
Let anyone free to build any kind of unit of any race.
Problem solved.
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JimJams
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 496
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Posted: 02 Aug 2012 at 23:53 |
Bonaparta wrote:
JimJams wrote:
I have to redo all the maths, may be I lost an year building Trueshots cities....
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Hm? Now why would anyone make trueshot only cities? .... Well it's simple, it's way overpowered unit for a very low cost. The cost should be at least 2 leather armors like any other t2 ranged unit and some of the stats should be lowered... The other overpowered unit in the game is knight, but it's production costs are normal, so there is at least some balance. Another reason for this huge elf and human bonus is time to train units in aspect to their experience points. While you can train t2 archers and t2 cavalry at the same speed per experience point, you can't train other two specialist units so (for dwarfs t2 infantry and for orcs t2 spear). While this training times per exp points will not be changed there can be no balance between races. I'm afraid orcs are most penalized here.
Crafting will not change this fact. In fact it will make it even worse, because we orcs have to produce more numerous armies of low quality troops to make it comparable to much smaller amount of human, dwarf and elf units. That means that large number of units will also need larger amount of weapons and armors. Trueshot (t2 elven archer) and clan guardsmen (t2 orcish spearmen) both need 1 leather to produce, but 1 crafted armor on trueshot is worth way more then 1 crafted armor on clan guardsmen, because all the basic statistics for trueshot are much better not to mention training time per exp point. I'm afraid that if you put a bit higher % bonus on bad basic stats this still makes it overall much more bad stats for equipped unit.
So I have a question for the devs. Why have you made bad situation for orcs even worse with this release? Equipping low upkeep units is just waste of weapons and armors. For example if I give the same spear that has 10% attack bonus to knight, it will give 6.5 attack bonus per weapon or 13 in elite division. If I give the same weapon to kobold it will only give 0.9 attack bonus or 1.8 in elite division. Of course this is the same weapon and production times for it are the same? The same is true for armors.... Even 4 kobolds are not comparable with 1 knight except their upkeep. It is much more time consuming to make 4 kobolds then 1 knight and even before this update 1 knight was way better in every statistic then 4 kobolds. Shouldn't spearmen that use weapon especially made for them have the same bonus as the knights which historically didn't even use spears? Well 8% orcs on the server... I wonder if this % will be even smaller after this release? I'm certainly thinking of leaving like 2 other orcs from my alliance have done already...
Another aspect of this crafting business. It penalizes big players and rewards small players. Big players with 200K+ army will never be able to equip big percentage of the army, but small player might equip all of it. I have no objections regarding this aspect of crafting.
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I have trueshot's cities, marshall's cities, wardancer's cities. And you know why I work this way Bonaparta, don't you ?
I am still working with numbers, will publish my work when finished, from what I can see now, yes, Trueshots (and even more Sentinels) are very cheap to build, but this advantage is not going to change a war (I will explain why when I am ready to publish my results).
About orcs... The more I look the numbers, the less I want to be an orc... But, again, I want to be able to publish something complete and let everyone decide by him/herself ....
What I am sure even now is: trying to balance things using the new crafting system is silly. The more I think about it, the more I get angry. Adding more variable to an already complex system and trying to balance things using 200 variables where we had 20 is a good way to lose control.
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LTH
New Poster
Joined: 09 May 2012
Location: Destroying H?
Status: Offline
Points: 27
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Posted: 02 Aug 2012 at 18:46 |
Playing many different games allows me the vision to know what is good or bad for the game. I am really good at giving suggestions for this game that will make it better.
I believe I was one of the few players that came up with the tournament idea. I also came up with the siege statistic idea. After playing another game like this and others games like Darkfall, I realized the game needed resources to fight for to make players more willing to fight in this game.
Just wondering when Illyriad will put me on for salary.
But yeah the last trade v2 patch has made the game fun for me again.
Good job Illyriad game team!
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Bonaparta
Postmaster
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Milky Way
Status: Offline
Points: 541
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Posted: 02 Aug 2012 at 18:26 |
SugarFree wrote:
you kinda missed my point. compare the stats or orcs to all other units of the other races. orcs easily have the most balanced out military ever. no unit really sucks. all an option to make. none is "to weak" to be built. just look at the ridiculous and silly dwarven cavalry, the horrible infantry of human and elven, and the suckish archers of humans .. orc units are all above those. orc archers can be equipped with spears, and we got some cool spears. also i think that elven cavalry is superior to wolf riders just cause of their speed, not for their stats
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Hm let's see now
You say human infantry is bad and orcish is kinda better:
| | Build time | Move Speed | Carrying Capacity | Attack | Spear Defense | Sword Defense | Bow Defense | Cavalry Defense | |
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 | Wardancer | 1400* | 8 | 65 | 33 | 19 | 20 | 19 | 20 | Infantry |  | Man-at-Arms | 1400*
| 5 | 55 | 35 | 20 | 21 | 18 | 19 | Infantry |  | Fist | 1400* | 5 | 60 | 36 | 18 | 18 | 17 | 19 | Infantry |
I didn't list dwarven advanced infantry, because it is clearly better then all these 3. I think that orchish Fist is the worst of those 3. Having 1 better attack then Human infantry, but all other statistics worse. I think that wardancer is the best of those 3. 8 speed compared to 5 speed is huge advantage...
Then you said bad human archers? Human t2 archers are 2nd best behind Trueshots. 9 speed is even better then trueshots have... Well orcish advanced archers don't have speed and even worse defending stats then human or dwarven and defensive stats are really most important for archers... I would say death dealer is the worst advanced archer of them all.
| | Build time | Move Speed | Carrying Capacity | Attack | Spear Defense | Sword Defense | Bow Defense | Cavalry Defense | |
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 | Lonbowman | 1200*
| 9 | 27 | 24 | 33 | 32 | 32 | 20 | Ranged |  | Crossbowman | 1200* | 7 | 30 | 26 | 32 | 30 | 31 | 21 | Ranged |  | Elven Trueshot | 1200* | 8 | 30 | 32 | 36 | 34 | 36 | 25 | Ranged |  | Death Dealer | 1200* | 7 | 27 | 26 | 31 | 30 | 30 | 20 | Ranged |
You claim that wolfriders are good somehow, comparable to swiftsteeds.... Let's see
| | Build time | Move Speed | Carrying Capacity | Attack | Spear Defense | Sword Defense | Bow Defense | Cavalry Defense | |
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 | Swiftsteed | 1400* | 20 | 130 | 36 | 13 | 20 | 13 | 21 | Cavalry |  | Wolfrider | 1400* | 17 | 115 | 34 | 14 | 20 | 14 | 24 | Cavalry |
Better attack, speed and carrying capacity. And the only reason why anyone would train large quantities of t1 cavalry is their speed and perhaps carrying capacity, if someone is raiding basic resources from inactives.
Well dwarven cavalry is about the same as orcish, just one 1 move speed slower, but dwarves have stelwarts for attacking power, orcs have nothing.
Well at least you could create consistent diverse military with orcish units, because every unit is bad with exception to spears. But spears are not comparable to other unit types because long training time...
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350
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Posted: 02 Aug 2012 at 17:47 |
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you are dismissing your infantry, your cavalry and your archers as no quality units. which is ridiculous.
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