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30JUL15 - 1WK NOTICE: NPC AI & DIPLO CHANGE

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Dungshoveleux View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dungshoveleux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 21:51
it will be interesting to see if faction troops have come from the hubs, or whether they can attack from encampments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote demdigs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 19:29
Well tonight is the big night, I am so excited, I just can't hide it, and of course let's get ready to rumble (que's the music)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alcie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 23:58
Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

With the mission count changes if you choose to dedicate a town to diplomacy and build a consulate and 22 foreign offices in one city you could still have 460 theft, sabotage, assassination or scouting missions in progress from one town.


One notes that would require over 35,000 stone an hour and with that epic number of foreign offices the city could snag a huge 23 tentacles when Audrey is beating--about what is needed for the quest--unless you are a non-orc of course because orc tentacles are much rarer and worth more.

There is also now an interesting trade-off between being able to hire diplomats and being able to use them since both foreign offices and the buildings which allow diplomats to be cheaper both require res per hour. There are many trade-offs in this game and most are interesting, but this seems like a pretty darn stupid one.

In addition, I still go back to my original point that if Audrey (or perhaps other extreme scouting behavior though Audrey seems like a definite outlier) is the problem, there should be a fix better than making it so that the statue quest now takes new players months to finish. I can't imagine that a city with a level 10 consulate sending 26 spies out in various directions really destroys the server all that much...if it does, I agree with Rill that it sounds like there are much deeper problems.



Edited by Alcie - 05 Aug 2015 at 00:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twilights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 23:02
with this change is there a possibility of resetting the scores in dip ranking? also would love a ranking score with just faction attack and defense scores! Ranking can be used for constant tournament play but the system needs tweaking so it is played fairly

Edited by twilights - 05 Aug 2015 at 10:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GM ThunderCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 21:21
With the mission count changes if you choose to dedicate a town to diplomacy and build a consulate and 22 foreign offices in one city you could still have 460 theft, sabotage, assassination or scouting missions in progress from one town.

Though you would need to make that choice, rather than every town being able to deploy that many missions with no trade off. Also it may place your town under greater suspicion as the source if players trace events like this back to your area:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 17:11
If that's truly the only problem, then it is a poor idea to require sending 2000 scout missions to Audrey to get tentacles. You're right, limiting diplomat dispatch to 5 second intervals will really cut down on how many tentacles people can generate in the future. Glad I got my set when I did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dungshoveleux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 09:58
When players understood the way to play audrey was to spam her, the devs had to turn off part of the moving units display elements around audrey as the congestion was simply epic! It isn't the sending of the units that caused the problem, it's what happened when they converged on the temples, as the missions had to be converted into attacks on the sending city.  I reckon 50+ people each sending 2,000+ attacks = 100,000 attacks.  An attack takes around 2-3 seconds to send, but this slows dramatically once your active missions creeps above 1,000.  Then when they all reach the other end...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 04:12
I was not referring to the sizes of individual armies but to the number of players, cities and armies involved in large wars and tournaments.  Although they may not reach quite the number of missions sent to Audrey, large battles in wars and tournaments have caused server slowdowns in the past.  This is the background for my question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 08:21
There are architectural considerations to actions like launching units. Regardless of how efficiently you code the system, it will always require something to track all those individual units moving on the map. I bet there is a single situation that causes the huge spike--Audrey beating. I had 2000 scouts ready in every city, to be sent one at a time. Lots of other people did the same thing.

Comparing that to tournaments is apples and oranges. Sure, the army sizes are bigger, but size is just a single number attached to an object. You can only launch 5 armies from each city, not 2000+. To put that in perspective, I alone launched 3000 cities worth of armies the last time Audrey woke up. You can build the servers to handle spikes like that, but it isn't cost effective for a 1% case that's 1000x bigger than your typical volume. This solution is just better.
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Rill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 05:05
This change and the rationale for it (the diplomatic change anyway) bring up an awkward question.  I am probably not the right person to ask this question, since my understanding of how computers work is based on programming my Atari in Basic when I was 9.  As I recall, I was able to change the colour of the cursor, but that was about the extent of my coding achievement.

Nevertheless, I think someone needs to say this.

We have seen repeatedly that there are significant issues with server load when there are many concurrent actions, such as very large battles or large numbers of diplomats being sent simultaneously.  While changes such as the one described in this post can head off the problem by limiting the frequency that such spikes in server load occur, this raises a question of scalability.

That is, is there an inefficiency in the code or a lack of processing power (or both) that is at the root of this problem?  And if so, is this problem likely to be correctable?  Either by throwing more processing power at it or by making the code more efficient?

And if not, what does this mean for the future of Illy and the ability to, for example, have large-scale tournaments that place large loads on the server in short periods of time?  Or to add substantially more players?

GM Stormcrow has made references to the contributions of Age of Ascent to Illyriad -- are the there solutions being developed for AoA that may be applicable to Illy?

I'm not complaining about the implementation of the change described here -- it doesn't appear that it will have a substantial negative impact.  But the underlying reason the change is needed seems like it is going to be a continuing problem, and I'm interested in what the developers are doing to address it.
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