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Topic Closed29JUL12 - MAJOR RELEASE (The New Age)
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Kabu View Drop Down
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Points: 118 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2012 at 15:07
On the contrary, it seems like a plan to fuel conflict. :p

Edit: Heh, Torn Sky beat me to it!


Edited by Kabu - 23 Aug 2012 at 15:07
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Torn Sky View Drop Down
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Points: 402 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2012 at 15:07
I think that was the point to cause friction and conflict.
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makapa View Drop Down
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Points: 13 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2012 at 15:01
Wondered why the settling of armies on rare resources even on your own sov squares wasnt mentioned or thought about. Its nice to have a rare resource pop up on your own sov square and then find an army arrives from a different region even and camps on top of your sov square thus stopping any hope of harvesting. This seems to have been not thought out.
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Points: 234 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2012 at 20:30
The idea is great, rare resources was one thing Illyriad needed, but yes there are some problems.

The biggest one is the time involved to manage up to 10 cities with all the micro-managment needed now, i can connect from work and i can spend more time online than the average, nonetheless i feel stressed after less than a week with all of this things to do. I really think we should be able to place stable structure to collect them.
For minerals herb and graps there should be basic farm/mines to be build,  capped on cottage numbers.
For rare resources similar thing but capped on the guilds on the city.
No one should be able to harvast (alliance too, to avoid actual bumping), but any army can destroy the structure attacking.
Harvaster should bring resources from those structure to the town.

For skinners, armies should be able to bring skinners with them to harvast after the fight.


Edited by Drejan - 08 Aug 2012 at 20:37
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Mahaut View Drop Down
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Points: 173 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2012 at 17:41
Thank you Rill. 
As I said, I have no intention of quitting, and I personally don't mind complicated, I'm a mature player (for that read the ancient hag of the gaming world Wink) with plenty of previous gaming experience. 
My original point was that some of the (in my own opinion of course) unnecessarily complicated interactions may scare away new players, as recruitement officer for my alliance that is something I have a genuine right to be concerned about.
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Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2012 at 04:04
Just because people don't like one aspect of a game or think it would be better if it worked another way doesn't mean that they don't like the game or should be shooed off to play somewhere else.  It is common in many MMORTS to speak disparagingly about "Farmville" players meaning anyone who disagrees with a particular player's perspective.

One of the great things about Illy is that the people who play it come from a variety of backgrounds and enjoy doing many different things.  It's OK for everyone to have an opinion about what would make the game enjoyable.  The developers listen to everyone and make their decision about the type of game they want to create.

The suggestion that people can solve by trading potential inequities in access to trading is somewhat circular logic.  While I may not share all of Mahaut's concerns, I think that they are valid and not as easily dismissed as the previous poster suggested.  Implying that anyone who shares such a concern should go play another game is an easy way to avoid interacting with the problem presented and tends to move the discussion from one of game mechanics to one of personal characteristics, real or imagined, of the other poster.  This can make it difficult to have a productive discussion.
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Salararius View Drop Down
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Points: 519 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2012 at 02:50
Originally posted by Mahaut Mahaut wrote:

Dude I said I wouldn't argue and I have no intention of belabouring most of what I said above. I can see the point in geographical location of rare resources which will increase trade between regions. 
But one of my main concerns is that the basic resource required to build traders is also geographically linked. Saying I can harvest grapes to build traders simply dosen't apply unless I spend vast sums of prestige sending small numbers of cottars across half the continent I can't, and nor can many other people. Having the basic requirements to compete fairly in trade unfairly placed makes the whole thing a mockery as people's choice in locating their cities was made before the release.
Jim Jams point about harvesting is also a fair one. Specialist harvesters should also be able to gather their basic resource locally when that suits the player or they need a basic resource in order to build more specialists. The current system is akin to saying that a skilled surgeon can't apply a plaster to a skin graze if required to do so.
I do also appreciate it is all new, and there seem to be a lot of very excitable peopleout there doing some very strange things at the moment which will probably settle down given time.
However my basic point still stands... Many new players, myself included when I started last year read the forums and the basic strategies before getting going, and indeed we encourage them to do so. If I was starting this game now the vast amount of things to take into consideration, things that apply per species, per geographical location and how the player wishes to play have been made far too complicated, I don't think I would have bothered to begin if all this had been in place. It's supposed to be fun - not a full time job.

One person's fun can be another person's full time job.  We are not all the same.  Zynga makes a whole suite of simple games similar to this one but very much less complicated.  If you read about the game when you started then didn't you read that this game wasn't finished and the developers intended to add a lot to it.  Did it not occur to you that when they added all that stuff to the game it would also make it more complicated?

BTW, everyone get's one trader for free.  This opens up the markets and makes grapes available for you to build more traders.  Grapes will start moving between markets in order to provide an actual advantage (money).  That will allow others to buy grapes, move into more markets and do the same thing.  No, not everyone will have grapes and tons of traders.  But guess what, none of the other rare resources are equally geographically spaced and there are many with much more military importance than grapes.  Those with grapes can sit there and hold them but they will only do so until someone with armed and armored troops comes and takes them.

I'm shocked at the people here who basically want a game where everyone has everything and can do anything.  I know a lot of people find that fun but there are tons of games like that already.  As I said, Zynga makes a lot of them.  They're pretty easy to crank out.
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Mahaut View Drop Down
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Points: 173 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2012 at 00:51
Dude I said I wouldn't argue and I have no intention of belabouring most of what I said above. I can see the point in geographical location of rare resources which will increase trade between regions. 
But one of my main concerns is that the basic resource required to build traders is also geographically linked. Saying I can harvest grapes to build traders simply dosen't apply unless I spend vast sums of prestige sending small numbers of cottars across half the continent I can't, and nor can many other people. Having the basic requirements to compete fairly in trade unfairly placed makes the whole thing a mockery as people's choice in locating their cities was made before the release.
Jim Jams point about harvesting is also a fair one. Specialist harvesters should also be able to gather their basic resource locally when that suits the player or they need a basic resource in order to build more specialists. The current system is akin to saying that a skilled surgeon can't apply a plaster to a skin graze if required to do so.
I do also appreciate it is all new, and there seem to be a lot of very excitable peopleout there doing some very strange things at the moment which will probably settle down given time.
However my basic point still stands... Many new players, myself included when I started last year read the forums and the basic strategies before getting going, and indeed we encourage them to do so. If I was starting this game now the vast amount of things to take into consideration, things that apply per species, per geographical location and how the player wishes to play have been made far too complicated, I don't think I would have bothered to begin if all this had been in place. It's supposed to be fun - not a full time job.
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Tancred View Drop Down
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Points: 5 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2012 at 23:25
All these updates are sh*t :(
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Points: 2396 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2012 at 23:03
Like Sovereignty, Crafting is NOT for new players.  It is very much only appropriate for developed players.  It also seems unlikely that players will field large armies using the crafted goods - at least not for a while.  I notice the Military "Elite" techs enhance smaller divisions which will encourage smaller armies using the crafted goods.

Riding Horse and Draught Horse appear to be the most immediately useful craft goods.  The racial weapons using only T2 Res are also attainable in decent amounts.

Over-harvesting of herbs and rare herbs is already taking place.  T3 herbs regenerate at varying rates.  A good harvester will harvest lightly and scout the site repeatedly to ascertain the regeneration rate and then harvest on a schedule to avoid exhaustion.  T2 herbs appear to regenerate very slowly. (They are supposed to grow, right?)

Multi-Cotter groups are great for harvesting hides dropped from larger animal groups.  But not for T2 herbs and minerals.  Similarly, larger groups of Skinners are very helpful for harvesting T3 parts.  Consider using a level 20 Skinner amped by the Guild Record Keeping Tech and that line of techs to increase skinners supported in your skinner city.

I don't see an advantage to Multi-cotter groups for T2 herbs/minerals.  Nor am I seeing the need for a lot of Miners and Herbalists.

If a player wants to have multiple Traders, grapes are very important.  Again, determine how many you can harvest daily without depleting the site, then use multi-cotter groups to get the daily max - looks like about 19 hours to harvest a full load.

The Trading Hubs are intended to create a stronger need for cooperation - either private trades or proper alliance management of traders assigned to hubs.  But for the new player, it should really open up trading of T1 res - particularly for smaller players wanting to sell T1/T2 res.

This is a big change, be patient and allow time to adjust to it.  Once the community better understands this stuff, the easier it will be for new players to learn from the vets.
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