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Faldrin 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 239
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 Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 18:17 |
I have a level 20 forge and one level 13 plate armourer result: It takes 3h 28m 34s to make one Vanguard's Platemail. How on earth is that even a little bit worth it ? If I specialise I can make may 1 every hour? How on earth can that be worth it? I have to equip 50 K stalwarts that will take me over 2000 days (almost 6 years).
This gathering/crafting patch seems utterly useless to me. The only thing I really find possitive is that people are actually fighting over the mines even they are completely useless.
Please enlighten me and tell me I have it all wrong ;-)
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JimJams
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 496
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Posted: 24 Aug 2012 at 09:23 |
 LordOfTheSwamp wrote:
> Finally I dislike also the "need to cooperate" effect ... it is a no-no for people like me who loved the game because of the "low online time" required.
That's a really good point.
Maybe the "problem" with this release is also its "strength"...
Before this release, you had to build something to do anything, that's a give, but after that... you could if you wished create spreadsheets and run calculations to optimise your city builds towards your chosen goal ("build the most effective assassin city ever", etc.), but you didn't have to; you could spend Prestige, but you don't have to. That was really it, unless you chose to get involved in a tournament (rare) or got sucked into a war (thankfully, rarer), when it could get time consuming.
With this release, you also now have three other options - gathering (which is time consuming), crafting (also actually time consuming - I certainly spend a while shuffling goods between the towns that got them, and the towns that will consume them), and trade (unclear at present, but still takes some time.) Now, like the spreadsheets and Prestige spends above, nobody has to do any of those. It is possible to play the game ignoring crafting and gathering, just as it's possible to play without ever opening a spreadsheet or using a calculator.
Now, in a way that's fantastic. When I started playing Kurdruk, I wanted to be a trader. But trade had few options, and I got bored and instead shifted to tournament play - because the game has lots of options for that. Now, maybe a trader is a real option. If trade picks up, I can see people having lots of fun with the game without ever building a second city - just trading. Certainly I've got an Alliance-mate who is frighteningly frothy about the prospect of just making stuff. Fab. More choices, more ways to play - great. BUT...
For some people, including me, it is not in our natures to leave things alone, to pass up on options.
I can see that if someone is dedicated to building military strength, they might find it hard psychologically to say "well, personally, I want to limit my time invested in this, so I'll ignore crafting and maybe just buy a few pieces when the trade price comes down - after all, my spreadsheet-driven cities are frighteningly effective as they are" - that will run counter to their established goal of maxing their military.
Personally, I made the logical decision when the release was announced to ignore trade. I figured it would take too much time, and I was better of focusing on my "Alliance support"/military. Yeah right. I now have 2 traders in markets, 50 live orders, plans for trader 3.... The options are too tempting to pass up, and then eat up lots of time.
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You got the point. I would like to ignore the whole new stuff all together, but I just can't. I feel this way: if I cannot compete, better to give up. So I am competing, but I fee bad losing hours on the game, instead of sleeping :-) I am now trying to find a balance, but I feel it is unlikely I will be able to stay on top. And being a Jungle Elf doesn't help....
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LordOfTheSwamp
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 May 2011
Location: Swamp of Fyrgis
Status: Offline
Points: 481
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Posted: 24 Aug 2012 at 09:10 |
> Finally I dislike also the "need to cooperate" effect ... it is a no-no for people like me who loved the game because of the "low online time" required.
That's a really good point.
Maybe the "problem" with this release is also its "strength"...
Before this release, you had to build something to do anything, that's a give, but after that... you could if you wished create spreadsheets and run calculations to optimise your city builds towards your chosen goal ("build the most effective assassin city ever", etc.), but you didn't have to; you could spend Prestige, but you don't have to. That was really it, unless you chose to get involved in a tournament (rare) or got sucked into a war (thankfully, rarer), when it could get time consuming.
With this release, you also now have three other options - gathering (which is time consuming), crafting (also actually time consuming - I certainly spend a while shuffling goods between the towns that got them, and the towns that will consume them), and trade (unclear at present, but still takes some time.) Now, like the spreadsheets and Prestige spends above, nobody has to do any of those. It is possible to play the game ignoring crafting and gathering, just as it's possible to play without ever opening a spreadsheet or using a calculator.
Now, in a way that's fantastic. When I started playing Kurdruk, I wanted to be a trader. But trade had few options, and I got bored and instead shifted to tournament play - because the game has lots of options for that. Now, maybe a trader is a real option. If trade picks up, I can see people having lots of fun with the game without ever building a second city - just trading. Certainly I've got an Alliance-mate who is frighteningly frothy about the prospect of just making stuff. Fab. More choices, more ways to play - great. BUT...
For some people, including me, it is not in our natures to leave things alone, to pass up on options.
I can see that if someone is dedicated to building military strength, they might find it hard psychologically to say "well, personally, I want to limit my time invested in this, so I'll ignore crafting and maybe just buy a few pieces when the trade price comes down - after all, my spreadsheet-driven cities are frighteningly effective as they are" - that will run counter to their established goal of maxing their military.
Personally, I made the logical decision when the release was announced to ignore trade. I figured it would take too much time, and I was better of focusing on my "Alliance support"/military. Yeah right. I now have 2 traders in markets, 50 live orders, plans for trader 3.... The options are too tempting to pass up, and then eat up lots of time.
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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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JimJams
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 496
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Posted: 24 Aug 2012 at 09:04 |
Meagh wrote:
I don't understand why many older players (and some younger ones) feel like giving up or quitting over the update. A player does not *need* to change their gameplay from the way they were playing preupdate. The new items don't give that much of an edge to game play. Older players can still play the way they've been playing for so long and they will still be competitive. - M.
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Are you sure? I am not.
I think many "old" players are tempted to give up because they feel the game is shifting to have more time requirement, and most of us are here because it wasn't that way.
May be we are wrong, but you (game owner) have to deal with the feeling we have, and in a game the feeling of people playing it, is just... ALL. Nothing else counts...
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Meagh
Forum Warrior
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 224
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Posted: 24 Aug 2012 at 08:52 |
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I don't understand why many older players (and some younger ones) feel like giving up or quitting over the update. A player does not *need* to change their gameplay from the way they were playing preupdate. The new items don't give that much of an edge to game play. Older players can still play the way they've been playing for so long and they will still be competitive. - M.
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JimJams
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 496
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Posted: 24 Aug 2012 at 08:17 |
I still have split sentiment about this upgrade. I like the whole idea, but I dislike many of the "implementations". What I am sure of, is I now spend A LOT more time on the game, doing things I don't even know if I need, and I don't like this.
There are also many things I pointed to developers where I see unjustified penalties versus some part of their customers, like grape distribution on the map, stupid biomes penalties on most of bows and other elvish equip (I would refrain to call it "racist", but...).
Finally I dislike also the "need to cooperate" effect called by Kurdruk. It is true we have now a lot more attrition with neighbors, and it is also true we need to interact a lot more, but it is a no-no for people like me who loved the game because of the "low online time" required. It is no more true, as to be effective we are now forced to spend lot of time just to solve all the stupid gathering incidents we have....
I don't give up, like more are doing (and you will see how many they are later, when we will finish our sitting slots), but surely I have many disappointing points.
Hoping devs are looking what happen....
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abstractdream
Postmaster General
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Oarnamly
Status: Offline
Points: 1857
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Posted: 24 Aug 2012 at 04:46 |
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I agree with both immediately preceeding assessments.
Battle is not igniting as I had assumed, however conflict is everywhere. Whether settled diplomatically or with weapons, there is indeed much more friction than previous to the update.
I'm sure trade will come. I'm not a regular market user. If I have extra I usually send it to a fellow alliance member, so I'm no expert but one thing I think that is seriously delaying the development of trade is the useless nature of many of the goods at this time. Until the crafted items are useable, no one really has a reason to get to selling and buying them (unless they are traders by nature.) No doubt, as soon as the equip function is active we will see a jump in transactions. Until then the markets are just sort of an experiment for those players with the know how and the curiosity.
Edited by abstractdream - 24 Aug 2012 at 04:54
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Bonfyr Verboo
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 24 Aug 2012 at 04:17 |
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I agree with your assessment re trading, Kurdruk. I for one am hoarding a bit, other than stuff I'm sharing with my alliance. I think as people reach a level of "enough" of each resource then we'll see a lot more resources on the market -- and at more reasonable prices. So if you want to make a killing on your rare fill in the blank, sell it now!
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LordOfTheSwamp
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 May 2011
Location: Swamp of Fyrgis
Status: Offline
Points: 481
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Posted: 24 Aug 2012 at 04:12 |
If this was designed to create conflict then, I'm delighted to say, from where I'm sitting it looks like it has largely failed. We've had discussions with members of 11 alliances regarding resources. 9 have sought to use discussion, cooperation, and a sense of fairness to settle things. Only 2 have sought to enter into any sort of conflict.
What it does do is to create the potential for a lot of inter-dependence between players. For example, I have 8 cities with no spare building plots, so I have very little access to Herbs/Hides/Minerals. However, I have small neighbours who have lots of spare building plots (and, bluntly, more time on their hands than I would have to send out Cotters!), so it's easy for me (with lots of resources that I can send them) to cooperate with them (with more Herbs/Minerals than they need). But if I wanted to do everything myself then, like the poster above who said that the update was useless because he couldn't collect his own Herbs/Minerals/Hides, I'd be unable to engage with the crafting part of this.
I don't know if other people are seeing this with their Alliances, but I'm seeing much more cooperation within my Alliance. Players who are more Farmville-focused (who joined for mutual protection, but don't really care about tournaments) now have a reason to help each other out (swap resources, etc.), much as those of us who are into the tournaments cooperate militarily whenever a tournament comes around.
One thing that bothers me slightly is trade. Since the update seems to require cooperation for those who want to get into crafting, it would help if people could trade easily. But the Hubs seem pretty empty. Having said that, I'm not sure it's the trade system as such that's at fault - it might be how we the players are approaching this. I have the ability to place more Sell orders than I am placing and my current sell orders only make available around 1% of my rare resources and equipment - at the moment I am collecting more than trading, and it could be that the lack of goods available in the Hubs is due to everyone else doing the same thing.
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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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dunnoob
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Location: Elijal
Status: Offline
Points: 800
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Posted: 24 Aug 2012 at 00:09 |
Drejan wrote:
For skinners, armies should be able to bring skinners with them to harvast after the fight.
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Good idea, let's have a "skinner contingent". Tricking skinners to go to a square with not yet dead critters or elementals can't be as it should be.
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29JUL12 - MAJOR RELEASE (The New Age)
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