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Ander
Postmaster General
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1269
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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 18:28 |
7 food tiles are by no means essential currently. Except for the tax revenue, there is no reason to sustain a city at 20K or 25K pop.
We need not assume that taxes will be the main strength of a city for ever. As SC said in his previous post, if there are renewed purposes for Wood, Clay, Iron and Stone in terms of "Tier 2 building support", one might as well regret having too many cities on 7 food tiles.
Considering how dynamically the game environment changes, it is not a very good advice to demolish the first city for some extra tax revenue. The 7 clay capital cities of orcs may be very inconvenient today, but we do not know if the devs had a reason to choose this resource distribution only for orcs.
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Brids17
Postmaster General
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 18:16 |
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Couldn't the same be said for boats? Some player doesn't build anywhere near water then the boat update arrives and suddenly that player is at a disadvantage because he didn't build near water? Obviously the GMs chose to let us know boats are eventually coming but not all updates work like that. Sometimes updates just come up and yeah, sometimes that means some players are going to suddenly be at a disadvantage because they weren't aware of said change.
That's sort of the MMO experience really. Things change, some work out great for you some make you worse off. I can't think of a single MMO I've played where an update didn't leave someone worse off than they were before. If you're looking for a more static game, perhaps play games that aren't updated after they're released.
Besides, who knows, maybe in light of this update the GMs will release another update sometime in the future to make intensive to settle on 5 food squares. And then everyone who had all their cities on 7 food squares will be worse off than others and will make extreme comments about how they should just siege down all their cities and start over rather than adapt to the new changes.
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Createure
Postmaster General
Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Location: uk
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 17:09 |
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I agree with what you're saying Kumo.
But I still think there is a problem with people who spent a long time building up cities on 5 food plots suddenly becoming limited to a greater extent than people who built on 7 food plots - simply because they were unaware that 7 food would become to essential later on.
Hence the current change is going to force some veterans to chose between rebuilding their almost their entire account, or settling with a significant disadvantage to those who built their cities on 7 food tiles.
Not only that but these changes are going to make "demolishing your first city to build on a 7 food tile" standard advice to new players - which just smells of poorly designed game mechanics.
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Capricorne
Wordsmith
Joined: 15 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 117
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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 16:40 |
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Well said Kumomoto! Couldn't said it better myself. +1
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 16:20 |
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Folks-- We are being forced to choose strategies. One thing that has seemed clear to me from what the GMs have been saying is that they are going to continue to force people to specialize their cities and gameplay. You won't be able to do everything in every city. Allowing people to partially staff a building falls into the lets have our cake and eat it too category. If you want to drop the food requirement, demo the building. You have a mechanism for it today, so use it.
I think this and some of the other upcoming functionality that GM TC and GM SC have told us is coming will force tough decisions on us as to what a particular city is going to specialize in, but, in the long run, that's a good thing! We don't want homogeneity in all our cities like we've had. I think it's much more interesting to have one city be an uber mage city, one a military, another focused on diplos and maybe another as a naval powerhouse. If every city could do everything (as has been the case to date), it would be a much more boring world, imo...
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Brids17
Postmaster General
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 12:55 |
G0DsDestroyer wrote:
So Think about it. |
Sometimes it's funny that people can't take their own advice... They GMs may be able to track who has used the negative food mechanic but how do you expect them to track what the player gained because of it? How do they know what exp was gained from a normal amount of troops even with the negative food over the exp gained from an unfair amount of troops? How do they know who won the tourney because of the exploit? How do they know how much gold was gained during that entire time?And perhaps most important, what makes you think they have the time to spend hundreds of hours figuring this out with all the players/cities that used this?
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Erik Dirk
Wordsmith
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 158
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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 12:48 |
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Gods that is a totally moronic suggestion, firstly what torn sky said; how do you judge it, secondly even if the devs thought it was a good idea it's not as simple as saying lets do it, they'd actually have spent a lot of time changing that stats of each individual player, whether their whole stratergy revolves around this tactic or you've used it for a couple of months in one or two towns (me) which even if its only about 20 players i'd imagin would take up most of the day given the number of variables.
Most importantly this change makes absolutely no difference to commander experience; no. of troops lost has nothing to do with the size of the army, therefore a player utilising the exploit, or a player not using it, who attacks a legion will both take the same number of casualties and therefore the same amount of time to recover.
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Torn Sky
Forum Warrior
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 402
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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 11:18 |
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How do you decide how much to take away. When the commanders XP gain was changed from all commanders get same XP to proportional to damage done commanders weren't reset and that left a large gap in commander lvls. Just take the change and make do with what you have. I personally don't mind the change I just need time to adjust my cities and the only thing it will really change is now ill have to be more active or risk losing some gold, the neg food strategy is still viable, although risky, you just have to be online to maintain it
Edited by Torn Sky - 28 Jul 2011 at 11:22
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G0DsDestroyer
Postmaster
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Location: Ásgarð/Vanaheim
Status: Offline
Points: 975
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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 06:23 |
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If there's a new way to get more food to our cities so we can actually have a functioning city at 20k pop(army & diplos, enough for def & off) then that is something we need to have made asap, otherwise i believe that a few if not more people will leave the game because of this drastic change in the mechanic of the game. making a better food sov place/bonus would work somewhat but meh, what do i know.
Also, i am wondering what is planned for commander upgrading now, as there will be less troops and therefore commanders will upgrade slower for newer players. And the NPC sizes? No one wants to kill a legion when it may mean destroying their whole army! this will also effect tournaments and i believe seems to be taking a lot of the old war element out of the game.
I actually think that the one way to fix the problems that will be created by fixing the tax, is to reset everything gained by anyone who used it, and i mean anyone who had there taxes too high and had food at 0. from the ones who won tournaments becaue they had more troops to the people who forgot to change their taxes. Make all their gold & resources & statistics & commander levels be what it would be without having used the max taxes method. If this is not done, it creates a highly unfair advantage to those who have used it to get their commander XP, advanced resources from the market, etc. and if new players cannot do this, then why should we still have what we have gained from it?
Seems logical to me. So Think about it.
Edited by G0DsDestroyer - 28 Jul 2011 at 07:04
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xBloodxPoolx
New Poster
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 28
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Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 06:22 |
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I think this new idea of if your food is negative and it hits zero, your taxes will adjust themselfs, is a very bad idea. I think this will drive away many players from the game. I know because this update will cause me to change everything, it will destroy all the work I have put into this game and all of my future plans. I beg the GM's to reconsider this part of the update at least. I know for one I may just stop playing the game all together.....and I've put a lot of money into this game.
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xBloodxPoolx
Proud member of the Crimson Crow
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