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Topic Closed15Aug12 - Market Graphs

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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012 at 16:55
Originally posted by Cleopatra Cleopatra wrote:




Whether or not there are enough grapes on the map or not is not actually the problem, in my opinion. 

First of all, it is not finding grape patches on the map that is a problem. I can see plenty of them. I also see occupying army forces on virtually all of them. As a newer player, I am not about to try and wrangle those occupied grapes away from someone who has been playing for a couple of years and could squish me like a bug.  So whether or not there is enough to go around is completely irrelevant to me.  I don't have any I can get access to, so I don't have any.  Which means that even thinking about using the trade system is pointless for me.  I am not really worried about this, I have other stuff I need to get done right now anyways.  The trade researches and facgtion hub system will still be around in a couple months...or years....so I'll just wait til whenever I get big enough to dump someone off of some of those grapes and horde em myself.  

The hording is understandable.  Limited resources are going to cause people to want to horde the resources for themselves if they can, in order to profit off of having something that no one else does.  

The actual issue with all of this is that what people are really hording isn't grapes.  What they are ACTUALLY hording is access to the market. But if you don't let anyone else have access to the market, who are you going to trade with? 

The other people hording grapes.  LOL That is it. No one else can make traders. To bad the other grape horders don't need YOUR grapes.  They have their own. 

People are trying to sell the grapes/wine for outrageous prices right now because they have a monopoly on the resource.  Here is the problem with that. If you pay an outrageous sum just to use the market then you defeat the entire purpose of being able to use the market.  The idea is to make gold. Paying for the grapes and wine would currently cost me far more than I could conceivable stand to make.  If I can't make any gold in the market, there isn't any point in trying to get access to it.  So I don't need any grapes.   

Especially when I can just bypass the markets and trade resources with my alliance members, who are scattered all over the map, have access to the stuff I don't, don't have access to stuff that I do, and like me enough not to price gouge me like the people in the market would.  

Smaller players gain far more by simply bartering with other small players to get the things they need.  I may not make any gold this way, but at least I also did not lose a ton buying my way into a market that has no one else in it to trade with anyways.  

The only people who are going to actually be able to use the faction hub system in a meaningful way is going to be all the people who are trying to create a bottleneck on the resources so that they can make massive profit off of them.  But it is hard to make a profit if no one can even see you sitting on all those grapes in those faction hubs farther than 100 units away.  

Eventually I am sure that people will settle down and stop occupying every rare resource they can get their troops on simply to keep anyone else from playing with em. I'm sure a couple months from now grapes will no longer be an issue and everything will settle down.  

Until then, I am sure that there will be players who are a little short on common sense who are willing to pay the astronomical fees the grape and wine dictators demand. People who want access to the market enough to ignore the fact that they are never going to make enough in the markets to balance out the cost.  





This is what is happening and will happen. Very sharp. "grape and wine dictators" is especially witty.

For me, grapes is virtually a non-issue.

There are 2 spots with grapes near one of my towns. I have harvested off and on from them since my first Cotters ventured into the wild. I made my wine-less Trader and I have enough grapes to make two more (I am not ready to make them yet since I am not a trade focused player) so at this point I am done gathering grapes. My "marker" armies are going to stay there for now as my alliance mates begin gathering their own grapes from these spots. I will eventually leave them and perhaps someone else will occupy but I figure within a couple of months they will remain unoccupied because they will become less and less important as time goes on and eventually will be virtually worthless as all the players interested in building more than a single Trader will have gotten what they need.

Circumstances will certainly be different for different locations, but I believe the demand for grapes will drop off and I think it's probable it will happen with a crash.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2012 at 02:42
Originally posted by Aurordan Aurordan wrote:

I love it.
I hate it until I find it, where is it?  Is the Trends research by itself supposed to have any visible effect, does it only unlock further research for the market graphs, or has it simply no effect in towns without traders? Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2012 at 03:22
Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

 I believe the demand for grapes will drop off
+1  My idea to get 3 trade, 2 gatherer, and 1 crafting town was a dubious plan; but let's assume that players with pop 10K or more want an average of 4 traders.  For that they need 0+1+1+2 barrels of wine.  

Smaller players might try to get 2 traders, one for a nearby hub used as mega-warehouse, and one roaming trader used to sell their gathered locally not-so-rare resources far away where they are really rare.  But I'd guess that smaller players use an average of 1 trader.  For that they'll need no wine.

There are about 3000 players at or above 10K pop, shown in the pop rankings.  Ignoring inactive or abandoned accounts an average of 4 traders for these players results in an immediate demand of 12K barrels of wine.  That will take some time, e.g., I hope to be ready to sell a barrel of wine next month.  With some luck it might be still precious, but I'm not betting on it.  

Of course if it turns out that everybody wants ten traders the big Illy wine crash won't be too soon
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 13:07
unless the npc hubs provide special items traded by npc traders, bartering is a much simpler process then all the work it takes for hub trading, hopefully the game has plans for special trade items at each hub location, items that are non-transferable...this would give a much greater need for grapes
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 00:37
Originally posted by dunnoob dunnoob wrote:


Originally posted by Aurordan Aurordan wrote:

I love it.
I hate it until I find it, where is it?  Is the Trends research by itself supposed to have any visible effect, does it only unlock further research for the market graphs, or has it simply no effect in towns without traders? Confused


Trends only unlocks the further research required to view Candlestick graphs, Volume graphs, Supply and Demand graphs and complete numerical data (with download option.) The graphs and data, when unlocked are available from the town with the research for every visible Hub as well as each Region with a town (I assume this will be useful when trade visibility is enabled.)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 00:45
Am I correct to assume that the trending chart isnt actually showing trending?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 01:05
I think it shows trends starting when you finish the research.  As such, if you just finished the research then it wouldn't show anything.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 01:21
Originally posted by Salararius Salararius wrote:

I think it shows trends starting when you finish the research.  As such, if you just finished the research then it wouldn't show anything.




Above is the graph I currently see (dating glitch included) in my Trends researched town (research completed on August 20 @ 4:14am) This graph looks just like the first in the series of 3 in TC's OP. It does show the trends, as far back as 10 days, which as far as I know (I can see them in every town on both accounts) are available for everyone as they were before. The difference here is the Volume, which I haven't seen on my other town's graphs. This may or may not be added with the Trends research, IDK.


Edited by abstractdream - 22 Aug 2012 at 01:31
Bonfyr Verboo
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 03:00
Sorry, I should have checked before posting :(  I can see all history when there is any (not all things have been traded since Aug 11).

The text for Trend Analysis research:

Beyond simple average prices, you may also wish to know what volume of trade has occurred in different markets, over time. With this Research, you can see the volumes of each good traded for any region you have a town in or any region where you have a Trader in a Faction Hub.

indicates the Trend Analysis research is needed to see volume.  But any city I have with the Trends research shows volume.

And cities with the Trend Analysis research show ave buy and ave sell prices and by the text of the Trends research these should have been made available with that research option.

The text for Trends research:

Data, and the analysis of data, will give your Traders an edge – allowing you to understand events in the markets and react appropriately, maximising your profit.

As well as graphing the average buy and sell prices; for any region you have a town in or any region where you have a Trader in a Faction Hub, this Research unlocks a series of further Researches which will give you a clearer view of data relating to the markets.

I think they switched the effects of those two research (or the descriptions are switched). Ouch

Strangely, in cities where I have the Trend Analysis research, for some markets (not necessarily all) I see different average price graphs than I do for cities without that research.  Since all my cities are in the same region this doesn't make sense?  For other markets, the average price graphs do match in different cities.  It's honestly a pain to switch cities and markets and then go to the graphs.  I've done it half a dozen times and I think it's messed up but I could have been clicking wrong too so double check.

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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 17:57
They fixed the flipped researches you mentioned, Trends and Trends Analysis just today.

As for the graphing discrepancy you asked about, my town (only one so far) with Trend Analysis research completed is in a different region than every other town on the account, however I have 2 towns in that region on my other account and they show the same graph when showing all markets. For individual markets, visibility is different but the markets each town has in common seem to be the same. I can find no discrepancies between towns on the same markets.

Edited by abstractdream - 22 Aug 2012 at 18:06
Bonfyr Verboo
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