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JimJams View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 15:35
Originally posted by dunnoob dunnoob wrote:

Originally posted by JimJams JimJams wrote:

Second trader cost is 1 barrel, third 2 barrels....
You are joking...
Originally posted by JimJams JimJams wrote:

Not kidding.
...not? Shocked

They should let us "trade" four settlers for one barrel for a limited time to kick start trade v2, today would be soon enough.

I read a post from another player reporting :

1 trader = free
2 trader = 1 barrel
3 trader = 1 barrel
4 trader = 2 barrel

so it is a little better than expected.

At this point I just don't care, I will use hubs when I will be able to get wine. 
I was just trying to point to a risk of failure, not my problem anyway. 
Case closed.
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Salararius View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 16:29
Originally posted by JimJams JimJams wrote:

So, we will spend hours looking the map, to find grapes 500 squares from us, then we send (an army? a cotter?) and we hope it will not bounce someone, or kill some other cotters. This every other day.

Is this adding fun to the game ?

Am I the only one bored about this ?

Yes, if that's all you can imagine then that is what you will have to do.

Everyone get's a trader (1 trader) without needing any wine.  With one trader you can send him to any trade hub and place a buy order for grapes or a barrel of wine or both.

My point was that if you send your trader to the right place, there are abundant grapes.  People in those areas will manage to get large stockpiles.  When there are large stockpile of a commodity and a very high market price someone will break and start selling.  Prices can only fall in that type of market and each customer can only use a limited amount of grapes/wine.  Once a player has made all the traders he wants, he won't buy more grapes/wine (traders don't die).  People certainly won't pay crazy high prices for grapes/wine if they don't want more traders.  Once one person in an area with grapes starts selling there will be a frenzy but things will slow over time.  Harvesting and selling grapes is going to be a gangbuster business for a very short time and then a declining business for the next year or two.  The flood of traders the first round of grape selling creates will bring grapes to other hubs to try and replicate the initial frenzy.  This time there will be even more competition though.

What the grape harvesters need to do is create an OPEC style cartel of grape growers.  That would keep prices artificially high.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 17:36
Originally posted by JimJams JimJams wrote:

So, we will spend hours looking the map, to find grapes 500 squares from us, then we send (an army? a cotter?) and we hope it will not bounce someone, or kill some other cotters. This every other day.
No.  1st, in Tallimar and other jungles -- ditto deserts -- finding grapes is hopeless; 2nd, sending cotters on one day trips to Arran is, as you said, no fun; 3rd, your towns are far too big for any cotters at all.  

Untested:  Maybe new players are willing to collect grapes, and swap them for trade v1 resources, or for military help with their rare resources.  The latter requires NAPs with training alliances, or wherever you find new players with lots of cotters near grapes.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 17:44

I also think many of us do not know that we have default visibility to all the hubs in a certain radius, so one can buy a "sell order" or sell to a "buy order" without having a trader in these hubs.

If you are not seeing orders in hubs it’s because no one has trader there and no one put a buy or sell order in the hub –its matter of time

You only need multiple traders if you need visibility in extra hubs or you are in trading and really want to go hub to hub to buy or sell.

for example, I have default visibility in 12 hubs between my both a/c and I can buy or sell to any order placed by others in these hubs (without the need of trader) - now if I need to see beyond these 12 hubs I need trader or if I need to place buy/sell order in hub I need trader.

PS: Total hubs on map = 145  with centrum hub most active atm, come here with your free trader and don't buy grapes in black market else people will hoard them forever 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 18:18
Good luck getting new players to harvest grapes.  Most of the grapes in the newb ring have armies parked on them.  I have a newb in my alliance who had 3 cotters killed when someone landed an army on a grape patch yesterday.  No big deal, but any risk for little chance of a return is not going to be a plan you can sell to a lot of new payers. They're better off harvesting herbs, minerals or especially hides.

As for the estimate of 1000 grapes per patch per day, that is a bit high in my opinion. Patches in my area vary between 300-600 grapes.  As a human, my peeps gather faster, but with 3 cotters per patch, that's 300 grapes every 15 hours.  IF I can manage it so that they harvest 24/7, then I would get around 500 grapes per 24 hours.  But that's hard to pull off, since remember it's hard to have more than a few cotters in even a half-developed city, so it's not like you can send out a new batch while your old batch is harvesting, because generally all of your cotters will be out harvesting SOMETHING.

500 grapes a day is IF your patch is very close AND you don't have a lot of neighbors interrupting you.  I've been using around 10 cotters to harvest grapes pretty faithfully from relatively close patches, and I've managed to amass a total of about 7000 grapes since the change was implemented.  Granted, my yield has gone up from the first week or so when I was sending cotters one at a time, but I'm not expecting to net more than 1000 grapes a day from all the patches I visit combined even under the best circumstances.

There have been implications that wine will be used for other purposes, such as spell casting, in the future, and who says Traders never die?  I could imagine they could be caught up in blockades, for example.

I don't particularly mind the mechanics of gathering except for all the angst and animosity involved.  But I can see how others would see it as tiresome.
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Salararius View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 19:09
10  from [city name here] finished at [location A] in [a province] having harvested 1000  and are returning home. 601 are left on the square. Yesterday 14 Aug 2012 19:52:55

10  from [city name here] finished at [location B] in [a province] having harvested 1000  and are returning home. 570 are left on the square. 2 days ago 13 Aug 2012 20:52:19

10  from [city name here] finished at [location A] in [a province] having harvested 1000  and are returning home. 601 are left on the square. 3 days ago 12 Aug 2012 19:07:48

8  from [city name here] finished at [location B] in [a province] having harvested 800  and are returning home. 580 are left on the square. 4 days ago 12 Aug 2012 02:37:13

10  from [city name here] finished at [location A] in [a province] having harvested 1000  and are returning home. 601 are left on the square. 5 days ago 10 Aug 2012 23:37:45

6  from [city name here] finished at [location A] in [a province] having harvested 600  and are returning home. 621 are left on the square. 1 weeks ago 09 Aug 2012 09:25:13

6  from [city name here] finished at [location C] in [a province] having harvested 600  and are returning home. 442 are left on the square. 2 weeks ago 04 Aug 2012 15:50:30

Scrubbed grape harvesting reports (minus the reports where the account was bumped by other newbies) from a brand new account (in the newbie ring).  There were no armies on any of those grape plots.  The newbie account those reports come from doesn't have armies.  That newbie is still harvesting from one of the plots, two did get shut down.  All reports are from the same city.  That city also harvested over 10,000 minerals and 10,000 herbs.  It's not hard.  Dead cotters are as easy to replace as dead scouts.  That account hasn't lost a cotter yet though.

In another part of the map, I noticed a grape patch.  So I looked around, within one 40 square block I counted a dozen grape plots (I stopped counting as every harvester I clicked on was grapes) and only 2 had armies on them.  This was three days ago, well after every rare resource near me had armies on it.

Both those situations could just be lucky chance observations on my part.  My projections may be wrong, but they can't be that far wrong.  I made them based on information in hand, not total guesses.

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Salararius View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 19:13
Originally posted by nitin2011 nitin2011 wrote:

I also think many of us do not know that we have default visibility to all the hubs in a certain radius, so one can buy a "sell order" or sell to a "buy order" without having a trader in these hubs.

I believe the hub visibility radius is dependent on the cities marketplace level.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 19:26
Originally posted by Salararius Salararius wrote:

Originally posted by nitin2011 nitin2011 wrote:

I also think many of us do not know that we have default visibility to all the hubs in a certain radius, so one can buy a "sell order" or sell to a "buy order" without having a trader in these hubs.

I believe the hub visibility radius is dependent on the cities marketplace level.


Yes I also think its relative to your marketplace level however if you are seeing hubs in "Visible trade hubs only"  dropdown when you buy or sell - you have visibility on these hubs and you can buy/sell existing hub orders in these hubs without trader (if someone had put buy/sell order in hub)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 19:32
How many traders will most players want or need?

My feeling is that there seems to be an abundance of the new materials, besides some select *extremely rare* minerals and herbs. What is not abundant, though, is visibility, and that's okay with me, as it really does make the game more interesting. If there's a certain item I want, I'm going to have to search for it, either with a trader, by talking with my contacts, or going to some black market or other. For more standard rare items, they won't be too far away.

There are *plenty* of basic minerals and herbs, and most of the normal rare spots I've found have a large output. What does "large output" mean? Probably 15-20/day on average. There are hundreds of rare spots across the map (maybe one of our great player-programmers could set up a tool for counting and finding them...), so there are thousands of rare items available per day. Yes, including grapes. 

Honestly, how many people will want more than a couple of traders? As Nitin pointed out, we're able to see and accept all buy and sell orders within our trade visibility (guess those in remote regions will want to have more traders for this reason). Anyone in the more densely packed areas will have access to any commodity they want even without a trader. Personally, I don't see myself as an avid trader (though that could change), so I don't foresee eventually having more than a few traders. That means I'll need to come across 6 barrels of wine (for 4 total traders) max in the next few months. That doesn't sound unfeasible.


Edited by Garth - 16 Aug 2012 at 19:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2012 at 20:08
Originally posted by Salararius Salararius wrote:

Originally posted by nitin2011 nitin2011 wrote:

I also think many of us do not know that we have default visibility to all the hubs in a certain radius, so one can buy a "sell order" or sell to a "buy order" without having a trader in these hubs.

I believe the hub visibility radius is dependent on the cities marketplace level.

Per GM TC, a city's market has visibility = 100 sqs + (mrkt lvl * 5).  So minimum of 105 sqs and max of 200 sqs.
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