13AUG24 - URL-editing Exploit Closed |
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Sif
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Joined: 10 Apr 2021 Location: Athens Status: Offline Points: 423 |
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Posted: 13 Aug 2024 at 12:49 |
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We have speak about this theme and its not a bug, the rest of as do not want to change the game in order you to have the ability to win because you can not even if you cheat,are bigger, have endless resources, and towns
Edited by Sif - 13 Aug 2024 at 12:51 |
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Island Living
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Joined: 19 Jun 2024 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 102 |
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Posted: 13 Aug 2024 at 12:50 |
There are multiple ways for you to prevent the exo'ing of a city next to the future location of one of your cities. If you chose not to do any of them then you take the risk of a counter exo to your location which is a great tool for a defender to have in order to stop the growth of an enemy war wagon cluster and in this case counter siege your city. The list of circumstances that allow a counter exo city to land is long and made even more improbable given the fact the defenders need to know the exact arrival location of the original exo town and discover it with enough time to prep and plan a defense. If you as the attacker are unable to keep this element of surprise then you should not be rewarded with a pass on not getting counter exo'd. You are complaining about a mechanic that you have every tool to counter but didn't so now it was used against you. It seems more of a skill issue than anything else.
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DeathDealer89
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Joined: 04 Jan 2012 Status: Offline Points: 1103 |
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Posted: 13 Aug 2024 at 21:10 |
I can't believe that developers of a game played primarily via internet browsers believes this is self-evident. URL manipulation is done by majority of the player base as well as the user generated supporting tools. Such action are even suggested as the proposed method for how to solve some of the yet unsolved discoveries, harvest resources that landed on impassible squares and similar. I imagine every player that solved the heroic human state discovery did it via URL manipulation as opposed to using the UI especially if they use one of the user generated tools. Even the "circumventing what the GUI seeks to prevent in-game" is very ambiguous. How should a player be expected to know what the GUI seeks to prevent. For exampling circumventing the population requirement for settling/capturing a city could be done entirely through the UI but it isn't clear if the "GUI seeks to prevent in-game" that action or if its simply a special situation that you have to set up to be allowed to do that action. Or this example "As many players are aware, claiming sovereignty on a square with an exodused city inbound is prohibited by the game’s design." Isn't one of the methods for moving a city to close to a nearby city involve claiming sov on the target square? Why wouldn't one think that counter-claiming be a potential way to prevent that city from landing? How would a reasonable player who only plays the game know an "exploit" from a "feature"? |
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bzn
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Joined: 18 Oct 2022 Location: Kul Tar Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 2024 at 01:30 |
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deathdealer, i think you are missing the point
copy pasting urls to the map links of the statues quest is allowed because you can reach that page within normal gameplay using only the ui reaching that claim sov page on that particular square is impossible to do within the normal ui a simple test: if you cant do it on the steam version, you probably shouldnt be doing it |
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DeathDealer89
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Joined: 04 Jan 2012 Status: Offline Points: 1103 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 2024 at 02:00 |
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Thats why I pointed out the population requirement circumvention which is done entirely in the UI.
Harvesting skysplinters is clearly something expected to be done in the UI but you can't send to certain squares through the UI. Faction hubs, some can have diplos sent but some can't in the UI. Arguably of the three things listed population circumvention is the one which gives the biggest potentially unfair advantage to a player but it is a feature while trying to harvest a square is an exploit. Then there are the claims of people doing things like executing a siege from within a friendly city. I know less about these exploits but it sounds like some were done using the UI while some were done via manipulation. If alliance A does something via the UI that isn't intended and then alliance B does the same thing via URL manipulation did they both do an exploit? Did neither because it could be done within the UI? Did only alliance B do something bad? As for the steam version many people have never used it.
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bzn
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Joined: 18 Oct 2022 Location: Kul Tar Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 2024 at 02:16 |
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i guess its different if you are harvesting some crud vs using it against another player to harm them
regarding executing a siege within a friendly city, such a thing did come up recently, and the devs did indeed patch the way which was done by going under the ui, and right now someone is sieging someone else within a city which was done completely within the ui, so it is legal the devs previously stated that way of doing the city within a siege, the currently legal way, is currently legal, but might consider changing that or patching it out, or something to that effect |
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Island Living
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Joined: 19 Jun 2024 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 102 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 2024 at 02:28 |
I am glad you brought this up as yes there are two ways to land a siege in a friendly exo town. The first way to land a siege in an exo city is to find the enemy exo location BEFORE the target town lands, exo your city to an adjacent square BEFORE the target town lands, and ensure your exo city lands AFTER the target town lands so that you still have a window to send a siege to your soon to be friendly town's location without the game stopping you via the UI. The amount of factors that need to be taken into consideration for this method to work make this situation highly unlikely and only the most vigilant and skilled player groups can pull it off with only one chance to succeed. This method can also be prevented if the target town takes any one of a multitude of measures to prevent being subject to a counter exo town. The other method (that is now closed) is to launch your siege at a target town that is adjacent to a friendly town and use GDT or other methods to manipulate the square your siege is supposed to land on. This method cannot be prevented by the target town in anyway, can be repeated any number of times, and was done outside of the UI. You tell me which one is a lazy group of players cheating and which one is a skilled group playing within the means of the UI. Now apply that same thought to Sov being claimed in this scenario. Did the players who sent exo towns to settleable squares within the UI cheat or did the players who claimed sov on a uns-sov'able square (a square a city was in exo to) by editing the URL and having to synchronize two armies from the same town in order to trick the game with the edited URL cheat?
Edited by Island Living - 14 Aug 2024 at 02:30 |
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GM Jejune
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GM Joined: 24 Feb 2022 Location: Illyriad Status: Offline Points: 567 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 2024 at 02:41 |
I agree with everything Bazoon said here, and want to emphasize his first sentence. Yes -- URL editing in PvP combat is an aggravating circumstance in a case like this because 1) it cannot be executed in any manner using the UI, and 2) it breaks the combat game state between 2 players, putting one player's game resources unfairly at risk. DeathDealer: you're right -- there are probably other instances where players edit the URLs to get to pages in the game that the UI doesn't allow and doesn't want to allow. But these instances have never (to my knowledge) been petitioned by a player because they were victims of it in-game. Therefore, we're not aware of them. If other URL editing techniques were/are developed to circumvent the gameplay codified in what the game's navigation allows and doesn't allow, we'd address those issues as well. I do think it's pretty self-evident that the game of Illyriad is not designed to be played by editing the uniform resource locator of a given web page. DD, you've been playing for 13 years -- I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any official documentation for the game that directs players to do that in any manner that runs counter to what the UI lets you do. And centainly not so that one player could gain a tactical advantage over another in combat, putting their resources or even cities at risk. A simple rule for those who still can't make the distinction: when in doubt, don't edit the URL. The game is eminently playable without ever messing with it.
Edited by GM Jejune - 14 Aug 2024 at 02:42 |
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King Sigerius
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Joined: 11 Nov 2017 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 256 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 2024 at 03:01 |
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Altering the url has been brought up at least 3 times in my memory. Twice warring Sin and once during the gdt episode. Common knowledge imo. Seiging in towns much more, and always said it's allowed.
Death Dealer, you can circumvent pop requirements? You should probs tell the devs so they don't dig too deep into you and your associates. Age was banned on both accounts for telling rikoo to ban him. Me on both for making fun of Rikoo in gc. Nesse/Odd on both for their exploit. Don't ban 1 ban all 4 and the 2* who "manipulated" them to do it.
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KS
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DeathDealer89
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Joined: 04 Jan 2012 Status: Offline Points: 1103 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 2024 at 03:42 |
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With a bit more knowledge of the exploit you bring up a great point. The victim doesn't know if they are the subject of fair game or exploit.
What is their response? They petition the devs for a response, and hope to be saved in a timely manner? None of my petitions have ever been resolved let alone in a timely manner. Or if they get a response they hear its fair game. Either way they perceive themselves to be the victim of what they thought was an exploit and then find out its ok. Then they end up using what they perceive to be the same tactic, with the understanding its fair game.
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