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05MAR19 - Overall Score Changes

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GM ThunderCat View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 17:02

Overall Score Changes

We will shortly be applying a change to the way category contributions to overall score is calculated.

Overall score is a dynamic calculation across 8 categories; with the importance of value of a score in an category determined by the player community.

If competition in a category and scores are low, it doesn't take much to get a high contribution from that category to your score. However, if competition and scores are high it requires more effort to get the highest contribution from that category.

However, the formula we have been using to calculate the individual category contributions is very problematic.

We have been using roughly the following formula to convert a category score to the total score contribution:

Category Contribution = % of Max(Cat Score) * Total Score Available

Using the % of the Maximum score in that category has problems; which can be shown using the following examples:

Looking at one category in isolation; to simplify, given starting scores of Cat Score it would produce the overall scores Overall

PosCat ScoreOverall
11000013500
220002700
310001350
4500675

Using the old score calculation, if the 1st ranked player gains 500 in category score it produces the following changes to overall score:

PosCat ChangeCat ScoreOverall ScoreOverall Change
1+5001050014000+4000
220002667+667
310001333+333
4500667+167

If the 2nd ranked player gains 500 in category score it produces the following changes to overall score:

PosCat ChangeCat ScoreOverall ScoreOverall Change
11000014000+4000
2+50025003500+1500
310001400+400
4500700+200

And if the 4th ranked player gains 500 in category score it produces the following changes to overall score:

PosCat ChangeCat ScoreOverall ScoreOverall Change
11000014000+4000
220002800+800
= 310001400+400
= 3+50010001400+900

We consider it a surprising outcome that if you gain score in a category it can cause a player ranked higher than you to gain more score than you for doing nothing.

Category Contribution = % of Total(Cat Score) * Total Score Available

Using the new formula the overall score changes are more expected:

PosCat ChangeCat ScoreOverall ScoreOverall Change
1+5001050010500+500
220002000
310001000
4500500
PosCat ChangeCat ScoreOverall ScoreOverall Change
11000010000
2+50025002500+500
310001000
4500500
PosCat ChangeCat ScoreOverall ScoreOverall Change
11000010000
220002000
= 310001000
= 3+50010001000+500

Each category remains 1/8 of total score.



Edited by GM ThunderCat - 05 Mar 2019 at 17:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lagavulin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 17:15
Thank you for the clarity.  It looks like you have made a good change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 17:54
Thanks for looking into this issue and making the changes.  Much appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cesena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 19:02
Your change in the old way for the first one has  a calculation fault.
It should be: 10500  14175 change is 675. etc for the following


Edited by Cesena - 05 Mar 2019 at 19:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cesena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 19:44
Not a very good change I'm sorry to say.
Can't check how points are assigned. Some components are more difficult to develope/grow then others. Using prestige for growing towns is easier then growing without and sure easier then developing research. And even in components there are differences. Attacking one NPC (f.i dogs) is easier then attacking another NPC (f.i. Underworld troops) and way easier then attacking troops of another account.

And thereby I also can't check the sum of the totals, which aren't 1/8 of the points given.

In the old way we couldn't check the results also. So nothing changed there.
But a good change would have made it better and more thorough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 21:16
As mentioned above your values seem wrong, at least for the first player - he gets an increase of 500 points for each case instead of 4000 (as he has a 1 multiplier and the total score inceases by 500 points). I am quite sure that other calculations are wrong too, as a player that does not increase his own score should not be able to get an increase of more than 500 points (he would need a category contribution of > 1, or not?)

Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

We consider it a surprising outcome that if you gain score in a category it can cause a player ranked higher than you to gain more score than you for doing nothing.


I am 99% sure this did not happen in the last years. I got way more points while climbing to rank 1 in magic then i got when i was first and others were climbing.

I think your example is not comparable with the reality, as in reality the addition to the total score is negligible compared to the category contribution, thus making increasing your contribution way more important than growing the total score. One is an addition to an already huge number, the other is increasing the multiplier of an already huge number. Or in numbers: Lets start with 1000000 * 0.5. If you add 1 to 1000000 you get an increase of 0.5 points, if you add 0.001 to 0.5 you get an increase of 1000.

I do agree that the current calculation has some issues.

I do not think though that the new formula makes the score calculation better, as categories were players have a lot of points are going to contribute way less to overall score than categories were people have overall less points.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 21:29
If the overall score calculation is correct then the example should look like this:

Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

PosCat ScoreOverall
11000013500
220002700
310001350
4500675

Using the old score calculation, if the 1st ranked player gains 500 in category score it produces the following changes to overall score:

PosCat ChangeCat ScoreOverall ScoreOverall Change
1+5001050014000+500
2
20002667-33
3
10001333-17
4
500667-8

If the 2nd ranked player gains 500 in category score it produces the following changes to overall score:

PosCat ChangeCat ScoreOverall ScoreOverall Change
1
1000014000+500
2+50025003500+800
3
10001400+50
4
500700+25

And if the 4th ranked player gains 500 in category score it produces the following changes to overall score:

PosCat ChangeCat ScoreOverall ScoreOverall Change
1
1000014000+500
2
20002800+100
= 3
10001400+50
= 3+50010001400+725



Without doing all the math (too late, sorry) this looks a lot better - as all players lose points if the first one increases his points. Not 100% sure if it is correct though.


Edited by Thirion - 05 Mar 2019 at 21:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Thirion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 22:02
Sorry for tripple post, can't edit the previous ones (anymore).

Seems like the new score system is implemented and in my opinion it (sorry) sucks. Magic, Trade, Diplo and Quests are way more impactful then defense, attack, build and research.



Dittobite has Tech rank 1, Defense rank 2, Build rank 3 and everything else at least Top100. Meanwhile Shagoury has Magic rank 3 and everything else not even Top1000. They have almost similar overall ranks and overall score - how is that a good score system?

In addition most of the Top20 players now have a category (or a few two) that contribute 50-80% of their overall score - how is that good?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BayNights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2019 at 01:08
Not a fan of changing scoring systems after many years. The change dropped me significantly in the standings if it's calculating correctly. Weighting a category such as quests (no skill involved and hasn't been updated in years) the same as att/def values is not keeping in line with actual game play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimmyeo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2019 at 01:09
Thank you!
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