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03JUL15 - No More Research Technology Carry Over

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Berde View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 20:30
While I agree that a city shouldn't be able to be cloned multiple times, I wonder if there might be a better (but likely harder - maybe not even possible - to code) way of dealing with this?

Maybe coding some sort of "ticker" onto the city that marks it as having already been sieged once so that the research only comes back in its first "life" and a second would yield nothing?

Being sieged back to the newbie ring may not happen often, but this change would be a real kick in the teeth for those that it does happen to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 20:56
How often does someone get completely destroyed to 0, and then rebuild the account?

Also worth noting, if your friends gave you books and resources, you could complete city capture research in under a week. Once you can capture, you can have a good research city, which makes everything else roughly the same as now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Granlik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 21:12
I think Wumpuss went through that, if I read his profile correctly, but then he seems to have just continued to carry on and live a happy kind of life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Malek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 23:16
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

It's pretty straightforward.

Notwithstanding the fact that there have been very few occurrences of people getting "sieged out of the game"... but on the rare occasion it has happened, in the past, the sieging player(s) tended to leave the smallest city to last, to ensure a more comprehensive destruction of the player getting sieged - so this changes little in this respect.

Research times cannot be sped up by prestige, and are an important braking factor for Illy.

What this change helps mitigate are those players who have chased fully researched (but very small) cities around the map multiple times in succession in order to bypass the usual braking factor of normal research queues - essentially creating multiple 'research copies' of the same city, over and over again, without having to actually do the research.  Not an exploit, and still involves quite some effort with sieging, exodus etc - but we don't want to foster any repeatable mechanism to essentially bypass research time.

Regards,

SC 

SC I have to disagree with you on this. One of the main reasons that there was a lot of vitriol and hate in the last war can be directly linked to the amount of time that people invest in cities. You have a city that takes a number of years to complete the research and it can be taken in less than a day, the record being 12h27 set by Cactus. 

You have oft stated that you would like to see more "friction" in the game. Excessively long research times is not a braking factor for this to occur, rather it is a crippling factor. The amount of time people invest and RL$ creates an attachment to their digital cities that is counterproductive to your goals and in some cases unhealthy as when they get attacked they enter the meltdown mode. The end result of this is a game where people talk and thats about it.  

If you would like more "friction" in the game, you need to come up with a solution that encourages increased friction.  Waiting for player boredom is not going to work and when player boredom kicks in you have the results mentioned above. 

With the lack of game driven content that fosters safe competition people just sit around and talk tough but thats about it.  This is also another reason why BANE went broke, as a merc alliance we relied on gold from conflict and tournaments with neither occurring it became untenable to hold and maintain large standing armies across the alliance. Pioneering large standing armies became a moot point if they could not be sustained. 

At the end of the day, you need to speed some factor of game play up to foster increased friction and decrease aggravation. The "braking" factor that you speak of goes against that making it a process that takes an excessive amount of is not benefitting anyone. 

Capping full researched towns enabled players to get right into the action effectively setting the cat amongst the pidgeons so to speak. It was effective and it works. If you have no regard for your cities because you can replace them, it makes the game much more enjoyable, much more competitive. 

I have a number of different ways that something like this could be achieved, if the devs are interested, let me know.   



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twilights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 23:45
Darn it...another secret trick gone...the game should allow secrets that players discover...players should be rewarded when they discover things that can be used to their advantage over others...oh well..time to find other tricks...great game and so many secrets in it....everyone should experiment with combinations of functions...surprising results
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 23:49
As a further addition to my previous post. I would like to add that as part of sin, this alliance has had to be built from the ground up. It was not easy to do so, as was pointed out to me in AC by Silent Sword, alliances like sin could find it hard to compete on an equal footing with Elgean alliances. 

I do agree that research should not able to be prestiged as this would make Sabo's completely and utterly useless. 

The main crux of my argument with this update is that overall it has a net negative effect primarily based on the anti-competitive times to complete research to achieve desired goals. No other aspect of game play needs to be reviewed in relation to this, to me the research time is not a braking aspect of gameplay it is crippling. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 00:12
Originally posted by Malek Malek wrote:

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

It's pretty straightforward.

Notwithstanding the fact that there have been very few occurrences of people getting "sieged out of the game"... but on the rare occasion it has happened, in the past, the sieging player(s) tended to leave the smallest city to last, to ensure a more comprehensive destruction of the player getting sieged - so this changes little in this respect.

Research times cannot be sped up by prestige, and are an important braking factor for Illy.

What this change helps mitigate are those players who have chased fully researched (but very small) cities around the map multiple times in succession in order to bypass the usual braking factor of normal research queues - essentially creating multiple 'research copies' of the same city, over and over again, without having to actually do the research.  Not an exploit, and still involves quite some effort with sieging, exodus etc - but we don't want to foster any repeatable mechanism to essentially bypass research time.

Regards,

SC 

SC I have to disagree with you on this. One of the main reasons that there was a lot of vitriol and hate in the last war can be directly linked to the amount of time that people invest in cities. You have a city that takes a number of years to complete the research and it can be taken in less than a day, the record being 12h27 set by Cactus. 

You have oft stated that you would like to see more "friction" in the game. Excessively long research times is not a braking factor for this to occur, rather it is a crippling factor. The amount of time people invest and RL$ creates an attachment to their digital cities that is counterproductive to your goals and in some cases unhealthy as when they get attacked they enter the meltdown mode. The end result of this is a game where people talk and thats about it.  

If you would like more "friction" in the game, you need to come up with a solution that encourages increased friction.  Waiting for player boredom is not going to work and when player boredom kicks in you have the results mentioned above. 

With the lack of game driven content that fosters safe competition people just sit around and talk tough but thats about it.  This is also another reason why BANE went broke, as a merc alliance we relied on gold from conflict and tournaments with neither occurring it became untenable to hold and maintain large standing armies across the alliance. Pioneering large standing armies became a moot point if they could not be sustained. 

At the end of the day, you need to speed some factor of game play up to foster increased friction and decrease aggravation. The "braking" factor that you speak of goes against that making it a process that takes an excessive amount of is not benefitting anyone. 

Capping full researched towns enabled players to get right into the action effectively setting the cat amongst the pidgeons so to speak. It was effective and it works. If you have no regard for your cities because you can replace them, it makes the game much more enjoyable, much more competitive. 

I have a number of different ways that something like this could be achieved, if the devs are interested, let me know.   




I have this feeling you misunderstand what the change is unless I'm misunderstanding.  The change doesn't mean every city captured from here out will come with no research.  This change is for the narrow category of cities where after the last player built city on an account is captured/razed there is a zero city pop up somewhere in the newbie ring.  These are the only cities now not coming with research.  You can still capture full researched towns.  So everything is still in play, just not playing whack a mole with the repeat capturing of those popup cities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 00:27
What this method enabled was people to play competitively in a short period of time. To circumvent 3 years of useless clicking as finding and accessing researched towns is not easy. It still validates my point that the current times for research are not a braking gameplay they are crippling it. If research was attainable in a more timely manner, people would not be looking for methods to circumvent the normal research issue. 

It is especially a kick in the nuts if you have done this research numerous times and you have to keep doing it, more useless clicking than actually playing. 

When you need towns the most is in a war setting to replenish losses that may have been incurred. Getting towns with research from other alliances could be seen as aiding that alliance and put them in strife. Settling a town in war takes too long to bring online to aid your alliance. As almost all of these researched towns are in elgea sending a siege to them can take weeks from BL. So once again this process hinders BL alliances. 


Edited by Malek - 04 Jul 2015 at 00:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 01:06
Malek, in my mind, you found a clever workaround for a very dumb game premise that severely limits gameplay. Namely, that every new settlement must start with zero research, regardless of the state of the parent city. Why on earth would a bunch of conquered people convey all their technology intact, but your own citizens refuse to properly educate their new settlements? Ignoring the total lack of realism, as a game mechanic this just drives people to capture cities instead of settling them. I settled a single city before I realized that capturing is 20x more efficient, and I never settled another one. Settlement takes months to accomplish what you could acquire in a day with 10 catapults.

The Broken Lands angle is a good point: there are not many worthwhile cities to capture down there. Much unlike Elgea, which is littered with abandoned towns owned by alliances. Given the difficulties of finding a good town, maybe advanced spies (or a new type of spy) should be capable of revealing the completed research in a city.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 01:51
Brand, 
You have hit the nail on the head there mate. In BL it is to hard to do anything, once again the new continent is penalised due to the incumberance of elgea. 

Research in its current format is hopeless. I honestly have better things to do than research better things to spend RP on thats for sure. Not being able to take research into a new town is also not believeable. As the settlers have come from a town that has some or all research completed when they leave to settle a new town. It is unlikely that you have sent complete morons to settle a new town but rather educated people to further your empire and knowledge should be transferrable. 

To change the dynamic of gameplay, the research should be looked at. 30 day research? Seriously, this is ludicrous. If research cannot be prestige spent, you should be allowed to queue more than 2 at least. There is nothing wrong with queuing 10 subsequent researches i.e if you click that preposterous 30 day research, it will complete all pre-requisite research for you. 

I know that some research was decreased for the new players to the game. What about the established players that find it hard to locate sufficiently researched towns and have to settle. The established players are the ones that are still playing and more often than not spending money on prestige. It is cheaper to keep the established players playing and spending money than it is to attract new players. 

Fair is fair, do something with research so that people do not have to get creative to suit their own needs we fork out enough cash on this hobby, making the game quicker to get into will be a net positive for the game and you may find it will increase the competitiveness ingame due to the decreased attachment that people have for their cities. Knowing that you can replace anything in a reasonable time will make the game more exciting. To get into it faster, you have to spend prestige, which is also a win for the game as it puts more money into it to keep it going. 
 
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