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Topic ClosedWhy are we fighting?

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Tatharion View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 17:50
Gosh, this truly unfortunate situation seems eerily familiar. But I can't awkwardly recall the exact circumstances. 
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
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Ander View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 17:58
Sorry Kumo, maybe I misunderstood what people were saying. I haven't seen your GC chat and I wasn't referring to that.

Atleast this time we both are on the same side, wondering why they went for war! Goodluck anyways!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 18:30
Originally posted by geofrey geofrey wrote:

I'd also like to point out that the Coalition (of awesome) extorted billions of gold in the form of war reparations from the first part (cause this is the same war?) of the Evil Soup War. I admit I have no way of knowing where all that gold is and what cause it has been used for.


Well - Dark has a bunch but in general the reparations were nowhere near the costs of the war in the first place so no-one ended up any richer in real terms.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 18:48
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

Sorry Kumo, maybe I misunderstood what people were saying. I haven't seen your GC chat and I wasn't referring to that.

Atleast this time we both are on the same side, wondering why they went for war! Goodluck anyways!



Lol. The telephone game is a truism...

Good luck as well!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 19:07
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:


Well - Dark has a bunch but in general the reparations were nowhere near the costs of the war in the first place so no-one ended up any richer in real terms.


If you do not mind, for anyone that doubts (and because I didn't get to reply to Grego in the other topic that got locked, who more or less said that gold and equipment was a gain), some numbers.

Over the course of that almost 6 month war an average human player that was very active in the war (let us place them at 8 towns) could have lost the following hypothetical numbers :

50000 T2 pikemen
20000 T2 archers
30000 T2 knights

I think that you will all agree that it is a very reasonable (or even low) amount of troops for a 6 month period, but let us take even this quite optimistic example. How much do these units cost. There are of course price fluxuations but back then the cost was

1950 gold for a pikeman
2700 gold for an archer
6190 gold for a knight

This makes the cost of the above troops
50000*1950 =   97.500.000 gold
20000*2700 =   54.000.000 gold
30000*6190 = 185.700.000 gold

Sum = 337.200.000 gold
And this is only ONE players' cost, with the most optimistic of troop loses. Wink

And then people used to say back then that asking for a 150M gold in a peace treaty was "too much", but hey it is easier to be intimidated by a multi-digit number and shout "wolf wolf !", than actually grab pen and paper and do some math so I guess those complaints made sense in some way. Smile

If someone claims that those numbers are hypothetical or not correct then I will just point out that the number of troops in most battles were nowhere near so low as in the example, so I can only imagine the billions in cost incurred by the people that did the actual fighting from both sides.

So, no, none of us got richer. And, no, obviously, we never had that in mind 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 20:08
Originally posted by Deranzin Deranzin wrote:

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:


Well - Dark has a bunch but in general the reparations were nowhere near the costs of the war in the first place so no-one ended up any richer in real terms.


If you do not mind, for anyone that doubts (and because I didn't get to reply to Grego in the other topic that got locked, who more or less said that gold and equipment was a gain), some numbers.

~~

So, no, none of us got richer. And, no, obviously, we never had that in mind  

Just wanted to say this was a great post on the economics of war and how it affects both parties. 

I do want to add to your post that while it may of barely let the winners break even or even put them in the red, it likely caused the losers a great disadvantage. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 20:09
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

Originally posted by geofrey geofrey wrote:

I'd also like to point out that the Coalition (of awesome) extorted billions of gold in the form of war reparations from the first part (cause this is the same war?) of the Evil Soup War. I admit I have no way of knowing where all that gold is and what cause it has been used for.


Well - Dark has a bunch but in general the reparations were nowhere near the costs of the war in the first place so no-one ended up any richer in real terms.

missed the awesome edit the first time. Almost got me KP... almost ;) 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 20:51
Originally posted by geofrey geofrey wrote:



Just wanted to say this was a great post on the economics of war and how it affects both parties. 

I do want to add to your post that while it may of barely let the winners break even or even put them in the red, it likely caused the losers a great disadvantage. 


I am glad you liked it. Smile

You are correct on that addition, but it is only reasonable for that to happen after such a protracted server-wide war and the outcome not being a draw or a ceasefire.

So, in such a case, in order for a deal to be struck, something had to be exchanged game-wise.

If the current situation though, where the whole matter has not yet escalated military in the same fashion that it is totally blown up politically, then IF things can settle down for a peace agreement then I guess that it will be mutual and there will be few talks of such material exchanges, because the actual logistics damage for both side is, so far, extremely minimal and thus can be considered a negligent factor in any negotiations.

Or so I think, at least, which doesn't say much ... Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 21:37
Originally posted by Tordenkaffen Tordenkaffen wrote:

Why was all of this never preemptively sorted out between the alliances? Out of the half server that has now declared war on NC, surely it would be posible to find a matching number of opponents to give NC their much awaited war, instead of this bs where friends write to you and express their anxiousness at being placed into war with old friends, neighbours and people you haver never had anything but pleasant discourse with.

To Halcyon - many in your own alliance feel they have no lot in this war and are merely pawns in a chessgame. This war is unfair to them as well as your allies who have always had your back, all of which you stab in the back with this maneuver.

I respect your viewpoint and your right to retain it, I really do, and I would wish this business could have been solved diplomatically, but I dare say that if you are so righteous in your crusade against NC as you let on, you had instead of declaring war, joined another alliance at war with NC for the duration of the war, not dragged a lot of people into this debaucle against their will.

This ordeal is just unfair to a lot of people I find.

During the NC-Bane war Dark offered NC to end the war by a peace agreement (not surrender) and if they want a fun less hostile war, they are invited to bring some of their friends and war with Dark. The offer was rejected by SB and Electro. They knew they will have a much harder time then they usually do running over alliances that either don't train troops, don't know how to war or are empty of troops because of a previous tournament. After they rejected Dark's offer they proceeded to attack another weaker alliance - CK.

Tord, leave H? (only for a few days) and come join us in Dark. We know that there is an H? spy among us (KP has read at least 1 of my alliance wide messages before most of my alliance got the chance to do it), so I don't fear having you in our AC. This is a genuine offer not a taunt. You'll find an alliance at peace with itself and with the decision of its leadership. An alliance that now, in war, work well together because we share the same beliefs concerning NC. During the very end of the NC-Bane war I had a mini uprising on my hands because I wanted to bring only 3 accounts to Bane's aid and my members wanted to go all in. We are a team, not a dictatorship and we opperate by mutual agreement.

You claim that H? as Dark allies have always got our back, but I was kicked out of the allied section of your embassy because I was too vocal and active in opposing NC. Dark members were approached by H? directors and offered to leave Dark for their safety (this was before we decalred war) and no H? director but Anjire talked to me since the end of the NC-Bane war. H? did not care enough for our alliance and so it came to a natural end.

Come pay us a visit. We don't bite (well maybe Twi does).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 21:49
/me smacks Halcyon hands off my tordi

/me stamps tordi with property of H?
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