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Who Is TUF

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KenRychard View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 May 2016 at 02:13
   With all the responses to the declaration of War on TUF by Yarr, I wanted to start a new little thread to express just MY opinion and not respond to the myriad of other arguments already in debate on the TUF/YARR thread..
      SO who is TUF?
        
      For the most part we are a lively alliance of big talkers. This is the 5th game of this sort I've played, and the third alliance in this game.  And while all alliance chats have there long quiet times, and there times of, "How was work today, and Are your kids still sick", TUFs AC has its period of outrageous laughter, grandstanding, boasting and trash talking. Its a lot of fun and has a lot of fun players. I'm not one of them. I'm pretty quiet and keep to myself much of the time.

     But then comes the Dlords war. Based entirely on a leaked and edited transcript of an AC chat. By edited I'm not saying its untrue. Its more like a Readers Digest Condensed version of the actual conversation. As always, multiple people were talking about different things and the spy edited out the extraneous material. I've read a copy of the actual transcript and Its reasonably accurate.

    Yeah, we were talking about taking Dlords SS mine. And then about destroying Dlords as an alliance. And then about kicking SIN's tail as well. Its all there in undeniable truth. And it was all ridiculous trash talking.  There are no targets mentioned. No troop counts discussed. No players speaking up and offering their troops for the fight. NO, we aren't morons and do have a Slack channel for the important details. But we still discuss the fact that we have upcoming operations in AC, and there was NONE of that. Anyone with half a brain can see from the transcript we were just BSing.

     Why, just 9 months ago after killing my first legion of legion of Giant Rats, I went into AC and declared, "I'm ready to kick SIN's ass now!"  And SIN didn't shake in their boots and have to declare on us first.
       So is Dlord's leadership a bunch of simpletons? Or is there another agenda?

    Then there is YARR. I respect YARRs decision to attack. And am grateful for their leaderships honest post on the reasons. Just a little  surprised. I was expecting the attack, just not this why.

      A few days back our truly fearless leader Agalloch had a small siege army on an uncontested, inactive and I think abandoned(not sure) city. And another player killed his siege army.
It was a minor fray with small loss, but with large consequence.
      Agalloch is Greek, and if you don't know what that means I'll explain in a story.

      Late one night a man is walking home from the bar and smoking his last cigarette of the day. He gets close to his house and tosses his still burning cigarette into his neighbor's yard. It lands in dry grass, starts a fire, and begins to burn the neighbor's house.
        The neighbor wakes up and sees the fire. But he DOESN"T call the fire department. He's GREEK.
Instead, he goes to his garage and gets a couple of cans of gasoline and spreads it all over his lawn, his neighbor's lawn and neighbor's house, and burns down both his and his neighbor's house.
       After both homes have burned and the two men are standing by the ashes the Greek turns to the Guy who started the fire and admits," I should have called the fire department first, and then after the fire was out came over and talked about this. But you Know, IM Greek after all."

     So Agalloch doesn't try to work this little misunderstanding out, but instead starts sending abusive IGMs and throwing gasoline all over this tiny fire until its completely blown out of proportion. I love Agalloch, but sometimes I think he missed his last rabies shot.
     I was sure YARR was going to declare just to pay us back for the really unreasonable and abusive hatemail this poor guy was getting from Aga..

     Instead we get this,  Ill paraphrase not quote.
                WE are a land claim alliance, and TUF is anti landclaim
                 We have had past issues but they've been resolved, however we are uncomfortable with our close proximity in places like Pawa....
                 So we are going to have to declare on TUF because they are a threat..

     This is disturbingly revealing...

    Landclaimers want to declare a portion of the game map as a territory solely  their own, and declare they will attack and raze anyone who settles in their area.
    But OUTSIDE their landclaim  they want the right to settle as freely as any other player... SO, their areas are off limits to others, but they get free run of the rest of the map. Already disturbingly unfair.
   AND THEN YARR goes and adds, but they have cities in Pawa as well that they feel are threatened by the presence of TUF cities, so they need to force us out of Pawa as well...
  EFFECTIVELY  they are increasing their landclaim without actually declaring it. Take a look at my profile and see what I said about landclaims months ago... its coming true.

     This is a war game, and there are players playing it to WIN. That means they want to force other players out of the game, destroy other alliances, and eventually "win" by having only their alliance and  allies left in the game. And the way to do this is just what they are doing now.
    Consolidate a powerbase that is impregnable, then expand. Pick off one at a time the strong opponents who see this coming, until only the weak are left.

    There is a historical precedence for what is happening here. Long ago there was another great Land claim alliance. They were known as The Persian Empire. And when they had claimed all the land in the Middle East they sought to expand into new lands to the west, Greece.
     But a courageous King, Leonidas of Sparta, against the will of his own advisors who had given in to the bribes, lies and threats of the Persian Emperor; struck out with his small group of personal retainers, 300, to fight the Persians. Along the way he called to all of Greece to join him. But only the Thracians had the courage and wisdom to send 6000 of their men.
      Leonidas and his 300, the Thracians guarding their backs, stood against a MILLION and fought the Persians to a standstill, at the cost of all their lives.  Those 6300  men saved Greece while the rest of Greece cowered in fear, trembling, behind their walls.

         First Stomp, and then Shark/Vic/Unbow have had the foresight to see the inevitable result of land claiming... Illyriad will be WON and the game destroyed.  And now TUF has been targeted too for elimination because we too want Illyriad to be a place where thousands can join, play, leave and find the world hospitable yet challenging and PERSISTENT. This will all change if the land claimer's go unchallenged. They will WIN this game, and everyone else will be destroyed. 

   Its time NOW before its too late for the rest of you to wake up and make a choice.

      SO who IS TUF ?

      WE ARE THE 300!

      Who are YOU going to BE?
     

    
      
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Hyrdmoth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hyrdmoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2016 at 10:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeliciousJosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2016 at 12:57
Admirable post with good theory and story telling. 
Namaste, KenRychard.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skybreaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2016 at 16:34
In regards to the"Illyriad will be WON and the game destroyed." I think thats a bit much, historically (in illy anyway) there have been many coalitions at the top. GA and DSD r prime examples, but they havent destroyed the game, theyve given it history. Without it, would illy really be enjoyable?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lotharblack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2016 at 17:07
KenRychard being a greek myself i believe you are portraying us wrong. 

There is no way us admiting of doing the wrond thing. 

And probably we would be the ones throwing the cigarette to our yard and then wrongly accusing the neighbour and burning down his house....  Opa! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Curmudgeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2016 at 22:43
Great read. My one quibble would be that earth history is full of examples of land claims by both people and animals. It is more the natural order than not.

I respect the anti landclaim perspective that landclaimers are ruining the game but from the perspective of a player who likes a bit of military fun, I humbly disagree.

Since BL was opened almost exactly 2 years ago, the majority of conflict has occurred in BL. Elgea is relatively stable with most new players choosing the hope of "a better life" in the broken lands.

In analogy terms, effectively BL is the new world being fought over by the British, French and Spanish etc and traded in by the Dutch, while also being settled in by many others who have no interest in the politics but have to be aware of their locale if they hope to prosper.

Illyriad cannot be won by one or more landclaiming alliances fighting either other landclaimers or indeed non landclaimers. It can only be lost to large confeds insisting that no-one is allowed to go to war at all.

One other point that I was glad was alluded to is that Aga could not or would not have waited until an issue was resolved before dealing directly with one more immediate and closer to home.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomBombadil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2016 at 00:08
Dwarves reacting overly violently to insults and threats of taking their precious mines, and Pirates attacking people who aren't pirates... I can't exactly say I'm surprised.

A wiser man perhaps would have avoided dwarves and pirates altogether. Giant rats are not to be scoffed at either...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KenRychard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2016 at 03:06
  Thanks for the replies!   Id like to add I am "new" here with only a year of experience. My past experience has included games in which there was a "winner" who made the game unplayable for others. In fact, one of the games I played started new servers on a regular basis because older servers became unplayable.

   SO my opinion is not based as much on a complete judgement of Illyriad's mechanics, but reflects my past experience in other realms.  I LIKE this game better than any of the past games and would like to be a part of it for more than just a brief time. Have already made some good friends here!

     Is the phrase "This too shall pass" a polite way to say my post is similar to a bowel movement and that its a bunch of crap? I laughed until I cried when I read that... if I misinterpreted the posters meaning, well that just reflects my own state of mind doesn't it .. hehe

   Thanks Curm... I hope we can fight honorably, may the best men/women win and may the conflict resolve without us all back in the newbie ring LOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Belegar Ironhammer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2016 at 06:01
Originally posted by KenRychard KenRychard wrote:

 
    There is a historical precedence for what is happening here. Long ago there was another great Land claim alliance. They were known as The Persian Empire. And when they had claimed all the land in the Middle East they sought to expand into new lands to the west, Greece.
     But a courageous King, Leonidas of Sparta, against the will of his own advisors who had given in to the bribes, lies and threats of the Persian Emperor; struck out with his small group of personal retainers, 300, to fight the Persians. Along the way he called to all of Greece to join him. But only the Thracians had the courage and wisdom to send 6000 of their men.
      Leonidas and his 300, the Thracians guarding their backs, stood against a MILLION and fought the Persians to a standstill, at the cost of all their lives.  Those 6300  men saved Greece while the rest of Greece cowered in fear, trembling, behind their walls.

Actually Greek historians vastly over inflated Persian numbers, who didn't have anywhere near a million. The Spartans were killed to a man and the Greek army scattered and then Athens was burned to the ground so they did not exactly stop Xerxes.

What really saved Greece was the largely Athenian fleet at the Battle of Salamis where they heavily defeated the Persian Navy. Discouraged, Xerxes returned to Persia, but left a large army in Greece which was then defeated by a combined Greek force the following year.

The Greek city states were hardly cowards; they had badly defeated Darius, the father of Xerxes, at the battle of Marathon a few decades earlier, a battle that the Spartans didn't even bother to show up for, choosing instead to celebrate one of their many religious festivals.

Internal politics kept more Greeks from the battle of Thermopylae not cowardice. The Spartan's sacrifice did not create some golden age utopia like you imagine, but rather with the Persians removed as a threat the city states soon resumed their normal fighting among themselves in the bloody Peloponnesian War, a war that saw some Greeks get paid off as mercenaries by the Persians to fight other Greeks.

Sparta was also not a bastion of freedom. Instead, Sparta was lead by a brutal authoritarian regime that forced all males into the military at age 7, practiced slavery, encouraged the murder of said slaves by officially declaring war on them every year, and used infanticide on a wide scale.

But if you want to emulate Sparta. Sure, go ahead. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Agalloch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2016 at 09:00
Good thing then that I am an Athenian, the birthplace of democracy.
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