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Topic ClosedTroops balance

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Drejan View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Troops balance
    Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 13:18
Do you realize that you never changed the attack/def values of troops or races since the begin?
Even thinking your balance was perfect at start (and was not), you have added terrains, commander's bonus, equip, economy and lot more things.
Is it possible that you do not care of balancing troops at all?
All this attention for UI is great, you have changed near everything more than one time, could you please pay someone to actually work on the game meccanics too? 
Thank you.


Edited by Drejan - 27 Feb 2013 at 13:20
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Bonaparta View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 13:40
Completely agree with Drejan.

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geofrey View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 16:15
I don't think the lack of change displays an in deference of unbalance. 

The new weapons, armor, and mounts were certainly an attempt to make different army builds more viable. However I do not think this was very successful as the bonuses don't make economic sense on the large scale combat that wars are fought with. I think the requirements for building the t3 gear are great (except elementals), but the majority of the stat bonuses do not make a big enough difference compared to the necessary time and resources spent building them. 

I personally believe the devs want a balanced game, but they don't wont to get into the habit of retroactively changing the viability of pre-existing town or army builds. Any change to already established towns or armies could have a detrimental effect on the player base as players have spent months and sometimes years building their army the way they want. To all of a sudden say "nope, we changed the rules, your army isn't all that great anymore. Here's the new and improved best army build!" would upset many players who would probably leave. 

 

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GM Luna View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 16:22
As geofrey says, changes to anything in game must be considered very carefully because of the effect they'd have on players. That said, combat balance has been a subject of discussion lately. So we are thinking about it, yes. 

Luna
GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk

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geofrey View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 16:31
Originally posted by GM Luna GM Luna wrote:

As geofrey says, changes to anything in game must be considered very carefully because of the effect they'd have on players. That said, combat balance has been a subject of discussion lately. So we are thinking about it, yes. 

Luna

Poke through the suggestions forums, tons of great ideas and directions to go with!



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 18:10
Refusing to change current game mechanics based on the fear of players getting upset it not a viable strategy to keep customers.  People either understand or need to wrap their heads around the fact that an MMO is a constantly evolving beast in which change and adaptability is necessary.  

That being said, I do believe that unit numbers should be looked at.  I have also speculated that simply changing terrain variables and siege mechanics would also do the trick of balancing game units without a large scale change in actual unit numbers.  I know that a lot of people would enjoy combat to a larger degree if more units, both T1 and T2, were more viable on a situational basis.

Change will continue to come, just look at the promised magic expansion.  People who have very fine tuned cities will have to rethink things, and I don't think that is a bad thing.  Part of the appeal to a game such as Illy is that it is basically a numbers game, and whether it be trade or diplo or combat people enjoy figuring out the system and how best to exploit it.  It can currently be seen by the troop usage that most large players currently use (ie cavalry and archers) and current siege tactics.  Changing these things will create more interest in figuring out the best method rather than reducing interest.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 18:36
You do not need to make the changes over night without ever announcing it, especially those that affect current established player choices.

You can announce the changes, say now, and set an effective after date, say 6 months from now, criteria. That way, people will have enough time to adapt to those changes and you will have time for feedback and any sort of input from users.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2013 at 18:48
Originally posted by Elmindra Elmindra wrote:

Refusing to change current game mechanics based on the fear of players getting upset it not a viable strategy to keep customers.  People either understand or need to wrap their heads around the fact that an MMO is a constantly evolving beast in which change and adaptability is necessary.  

That being said, I do believe that unit numbers should be looked at.  I have also speculated that simply changing terrain variables and siege mechanics would also do the trick of balancing game units without a large scale change in actual unit numbers.  I know that a lot of people would enjoy combat to a larger degree if more units, both T1 and T2, were more viable on a situational basis.

Change will continue to come, just look at the promised magic expansion.  People who have very fine tuned cities will have to rethink things, and I don't think that is a bad thing.  Part of the appeal to a game such as Illy is that it is basically a numbers game, and whether it be trade or diplo or combat people enjoy figuring out the system and how best to exploit it.  It can currently be seen by the troop usage that most large players currently use (ie cavalry and archers) and current siege tactics.  Changing these things will create more interest in figuring out the best method rather than reducing interest.

I think it would be easier to bring in new modifiers for military maneuvers than to redo existing ones. Like specialty divisions, magic spells that boost stats, a new research that increases weapon stats, new craftable weapons, or something else all together. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 08:11
The current tournament has highlighted to me that there is not point in defending regardless of terrain. With the inclusion of craft item bonuses, the terrain bonuses/penalties fade into insignificance.

Example Archers vs Cav on a large hill have a +10% for Archers and -15% for Cav
Which sounds fair. But if you include Commander bonus, prestige bonus, craft bonuses, the terrain bonus/penalties are quickly overshadowed.

Suggestion: 
To make the terrain bonuses/penalties more significant without too much change, I think the terrain bonuses/penalties should be applied to the defense/attack stats before the other bonuses are applied.

For example 
Elven T2 Archers defending on a Large Hill vs Cav (25 + 10%) = 27.5
And then apply the other bonuses to this value
Human T2 Cav attacking a Large Hill (65 - 15%) = 55.25 
And then apply the other bonuses to this value. 

Apply the terrain bonus drops the ratio close to 2:1 
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Rill View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 12:44
I am not sure I follow your math.

Shouldn't a*b*c = a*c*b?
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