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Tournaments and War - Proposal

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2017 at 14:26
Originally posted by Fanuidhol Fanuidhol wrote:

Confused You're kidding right?

Of course I am. It's a completely unworkable idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fanuidhol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 13:56
Oh I see what you mean.

It was meant as a general player agreement, like veteran players not attacking newbies.

 
Originally posted by Tensmoor Tensmoor wrote:

Originally posted by Fanuidhol Fanuidhol wrote:

Confused You're kidding right?

Of course I am. It's a completely unworkable idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gragnog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2017 at 15:42
Ok, having read this post now I sense that it is an attempt to complain that fCrow declared war on vCrow directly after a tournament. Looking at troop numbers and players that took part in the tournament it seems both sides had players taking part in the tournament.

The issue you should really be addressing is "Active alliances with players who actually know how to wage war should give tournament based permasat alliances with very few real active players 100 days grace before declaring after a tournament".

If tournaments were actually more often and players were more active I am guessing this thread would actually have hit home to a few.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fanuidhol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2017 at 16:56
fCrow friendlies have responded that this is a complaint because they are self-conscious that declaring after a tourney is/was a weasel maneuver. Regardless of recent events my point is still to nip it in the bud moving forward.

Originally posted by Gragnog Gragnog wrote:


I sense that it is an attempt to complain that fCrow declared war on vCrow directly after a tournament.


What then would be the harm in asking for 30 days after a tourney for any alliance? If one knows how to war and the other are chumps the outcome would be the same.

 QUOTE=Gragnog]
The issue you should really be addressing is "Active alliances with players who actually know how to wage war should give tournament based permasat alliances with very few real active players 100 days grace before declaring after a tournament".
[/QUOTE]



Originally posted by Gragnog Gragnog wrote:

Ok, having read this post nowI sense that it is an attempt to complain that fCrow declared war on vCrow directly after a tournament.Looking at troop numbers and players that took part in the tournament it seems both sides had players taking part in the tournament.

The issue you should really be addressing is "Active alliances with players who actually know how to wage war should give tournament based permasat alliances with very few real active players 100 days grace before declaring after a tournament".

If tournaments were actually more often and players were more active I am guessing this thread would actually have hit home to a few.


Edited by Fanuidhol - 14 Jul 2017 at 17:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2017 at 20:10
Originally posted by Fanuidhol Fanuidhol wrote:

fCrow friendlies have responded that this is a complaint because they are self-conscious that declaring after a tourney is/was a weasel maneuver.

That's the kind of argument a child makes. "If you aren't really a (obnoxious accusation), why are you so mad?" Possibly because being called a weasel on a public forum is worthy of a negative reaction, regardless of truth or falsehood.

All I see here is a defeated opponent being bitter on the forums.

Originally posted by Fanuidhol Fanuidhol wrote:

What then would be the harm in asking for 30 days after a tourney for any alliance? If one knows how to war and the other are chumps the outcome would be the same.

The Phalanx will never allow external factors determine whether we can go to war. I can't imagine any other military alliance agreeing to those kinds of absurd limitations, either.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kodabear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2017 at 02:14
I doubt another war will happen after a tourney again so this idea is meaningless. never the fact you havent offered an idea of what would happen if someone broke this "rule" which is key to enforcing this idea  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2017 at 04:18
Originally posted by kodabear kodabear wrote:

I doubt another war will happen after a tourney again so this idea is meaningless. never the fact you havent offered an idea of what would happen if someone broke this "rule" which is key to enforcing this idea  

There is no mention of punishment for the commonly accepted convention that students in training alliances should not be attacked, or the 10 square convention. By and large, the Illyriad community is cooperative about honoring conventions once they reach common consensus.

Obviously nobody is going to agree to a 30 day tournament cooldown on wars, so it's a moot point here.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Kindly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2017 at 06:38
I've been in an alliance that got declared upon right after a tournament, by a bunch of warmongers that timed for it. There was a lot of language in AC that would make a sailor blush. We just accepted it though. However you put it, like it or not, it is a valid strategy. Maybe you don't find it chique, but that doesn't change things.

I don't see why alliances should take a month after tournament end before declaring war, just because you choose to fully commit to a tournament, especially now tournaments can happen all the time. Illy is pretty peaceful as it is compared to other games, and this is mostly about top 10 alliances. Well, if you want to be big, act like big. H? managed to wage war and do a tournament at the same time during the Consone War.

On a side note, if you are empty of troops because of a tournament, those 30 days cooldown aren't going to make a difference anyway against an opponent that did not join your tournament.




Edited by Captain Kindly - 15 Jul 2017 at 11:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2017 at 02:46
is the OP intended to prevent alliances which have chosen to participate in a tournament from being ambushed immediately thereafter (when they are, one assumes, vulnerable), or is the OP intended to allow alliances to participate in tournaments as a way to forestall the consequences of their dealings with the rest of the server?

imo, the first is poor form but rather difficult to prove. accusations that H? timed its conflict with Consone were made freely by many agencies and denied just as often by H? itself. no other instances come to mind, leaving me, at least, in the position of not being able to establish that this sort of thing actually happens (and if it doesn't, it certainly doesn't need another unenforceable global convention to fix it). in the immediate instance, fCrow certainly did not ambush vCrow, as Stukahh was in gc several times during the tournament foreshadowing the coming attack in not-very-veiled terms (Stukahh has been called many things, but not, to my knowledge, "subtle").

in the other case, if it's intended to afford alliances the luxury of behaving badly on the eve of a tournament and then hiding behind the global event for two months (duration of the tournament, duration of the peace)...well, that's going to end the same way the "king's peace" in BL would have ended, which is to say if you create a space where the consequences of offensive actions cannot follow, trolls will take refuge there. regardless of the OP's intent, this suggestion would create such a space, and i think that is very much at odds with the nature of the game. it is, after all, a sandbox and not a gladiatorial arena.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Kindly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2017 at 07:54
Originally posted by Angrim Angrim wrote:

is the OP intended to prevent alliances which have chosen to participate in a tournament from being ambushed immediately thereafter (when they are, one assumes, vulnerable), or is the OP intended to allow alliances to participate in tournaments as a way to forestall the consequences of their dealings with the rest of the server?

imo, the first is poor form but rather difficult to prove. accusations that H? timed its conflict with Consone were made freely by many agencies and denied just as often by H? itself. no other instances come to mind, leaving me, at least, in the position of not being able to establish that this sort of thing actually happens (and if it doesn't, it certainly doesn't need another unenforceable global convention to fix it). in the immediate instance, fCrow certainly did not ambush vCrow, as Stukahh was in gc several times during the tournament foreshadowing the coming attack in not-very-veiled terms (Stukahh has been called many things, but not, to my knowledge, "subtle").

in the other case, if it's intended to afford alliances the luxury of behaving badly on the eve of a tournament and then hiding behind the global event for two months (duration of the tournament, duration of the peace)...well, that's going to end the same way the "king's peace" in BL would have ended, which is to say if you create a space where the consequences of offensive actions cannot follow, trolls will take refuge there. regardless of the OP's intent, this suggestion would create such a space, and i think that is very much at odds with the nature of the game. it is, after all, a sandbox and not a gladiatorial arena.

I am posting this from a POV from before I joined H? and I have never discussed history after joining. 

I was in FF (a training alliance for EE) at the eve of the Consone war. I observed my H? neighbour who had 9 cities circled around one of my cities go into war preparation mode as soon as the Consone confed was announced in the forums. All the cav supporting sov spots in the whole area suddenly got taken. That was months before the tournament started, and I never had the idea H? used the tournament to ambush Consone alliances. From what I sensed in talking with EE, they knew that war was coming at one point. And war season is usually in Autumn ;)

A better example would be NC hitting BANE right after a tournament. NC never did tournaments but was an excellent military machine. Whether you liked them or not, they were good at what they did. BANE had some key players assisting Crow (vCrow after they merged with VALAR). But He-Man's policy always was not to commit all troops in a tournament.

But that's history. Water under the bridge and all :)


Edited by Captain Kindly - 16 Jul 2017 at 07:56
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