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Topic ClosedTournament V - Statistics

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Createure View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:33
Thanks TC we love this stuff. ^^

One small thing tho... it does seem that the column labelling is a little confusing/incorrect perhaps.

Seems to me like "atk casualties" means "number of units lost while defending" and "def casualties" means "number of units lost while attacking something"... possibly it would make more sense if the labels were swapped over.

E.G.
Unit            ---     Atk Casualties    ---       Def Casualties
Elven Trueshot --- 1,909,333 --- 853,209
Knight --- 1,199,679 --- 1,394,386

OFC it could be that the obvious meaning of the column labels is correct although that would mean that every defensive unit (bows/spears etc.) were mostly killed attacking stuff and every offensive unit mostly came to a grisly end while taking a  defensive position.

Also a cursory glance at these stats reinforces my opinion that the combat system is in need of an overhaul... where is the balance in Orcs seeing less than 8% participation in the tournament by casualties? And the most powerful OFFENSIVE unit in the game has the highest (or second highest if the error I suggest above is correct) casualty rate while in defence... it just shows how redundant most of the defensive units in the game have become.

Edit: There's a thread in 'suggestions' that features more people wishing to see a combat overhaul and some people making suggestions for it.


Edited by Createure - 26 Mar 2012 at 01:34
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GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:42
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:


Also a cursory glance at these stats reinforces my opinion that the combat system is in need of an overhaul... where is the balance in Orcs seeing less than 8% participation in the tournament by casualties? 
Hi Creature,

Well...

Player Accounts Created by Race (all time)
Humans 50.02%
Elves  30.94%
Dwarves 10.52%
Orcs 8.52%

So it's not totally out-of-whack...!

SC
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:45
Ok that makes sense. ^^
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Rill View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:46
Createure, I think the low orc casualty numbers are due partly to there being fewer orcs on the server and also to the major orc alliances (BSH, BSHx and SCH) being involved in a war that prevented them from participating in the tourney until the final days.

The fact that more "attack" troops died in defense than attack and that more "defense" troops died in attack than defense demonstrates why vets keep harping on the old saw "don't defend with cavalry."  And by the same token why it's a bad idea to attack with spears.  The attacking with spears part was likely largely unintentional, as spear units that were intended to reinforce a defensive position found that it was taken over by someone else in the interim.  I know that was my experience in nCrow and HUGcr.

Given the number of casualties inflicted by attacking cavalry vs. defending cavalry, to take one example, it's not terribly surprising that many more cav were killed while defending -- unless the surprise comes from the fact that so many use cav to defend still.

Of course "desperate times call for desperate measures" and in some cases cav is the only thing you can get to the square in time.  In that situation, seems like the prudent solution would be to leave only a minimal cav force making time on the square until reinforcements arrive; sweep with cav and reinforce with bows and spears.  This tactic was not universally adopted, however, and if all you have is cav and your cav can't get back home in time to send them out again, you might leave them on the square, as I certainly did toward the end of the tourney.

Edited to add:  Bad idea to attack with spears unless you're an orc with thousands of troops, and I'm not qualified to comment on that tactic, since I haven't seen it used often enough to gauge its effectiveness.  I've heard it can work though.


Edited by Rill - 26 Mar 2012 at 01:48
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Createure View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:55
Hey Rill ye I take ur point about teh Orcs (as SC pointed out above aswell).

Regarding your other theory regarding units dieing in attack or defence: Indeed I know by now that you consider it your duty to disagree with every post I ever make on here - and yes I did consider your point already when I was writing that post but frankly it seems considerably more likely to me that the labelling in the columns is simply wrong - there is such a unilateral reversal in 'atk casualty' and 'def casualy' between the offensive and defensive units...

Yes I know. Spears (for example) would have died hard while accidentally attacking a position (other than reinforcing) but I can't believe that this occurred in a ratio of more than 3:1 (with pikemen for example - altho much higher ratio with some other defensive units).
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Rill View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 03:38
Createure, I have to disagree with considering it my duty to disagree with every post you make.  But perhaps that only reinforces your point.

Wink

I probably shouldn't have sounded so definitive on my attack vs. defense thing.  I was putting forth an alternative theory to explain the numbers; I don't know whether your explanation or mine is correct.  Both are plausible.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 11:16
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

 
Hi Creature,

Well...

Player Accounts Created by Race (all time)
Humans 50.02%
Elves  30.94%
Dwarves 10.52%
Orcs 8.52%

So it's not totally out-of-whack...!

SC

Greetings!

Could we get statistical data on population regarding race please. Accounts created might be very misleading. 

A small % of dwarfs and even smaller of orcs. If those races would be more competitive in military sense, I'm sure those % would be different (humans have best attacking unit and elves best defending unit).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 11:36
sick how there are so little orcs.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 12:17
would love to know what % of orcs in battle were from what alliances and/or players :)

same with other races :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 15:01
Originally posted by Bonaparta Bonaparta wrote:

A small % of dwarfs and even smaller of orcs. If those races would be more competitive in military sense, I'm sure those % would be different (humans have best attacking unit and elves best defending unit).


I can't speak for Orcs, having never played one, but Dwarves are really under-appreciated in Illy. The Stalwart is the best unit for clearing forest, mountain, and building squares (which happen to be where a large amount of combat seems to occur). The Dwarves also have the best siege engines and the best thieves. For those three reasons, they are a strong race to play...
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