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    Posted: 01 Jun 2018 at 13:41
Originally posted by Dabrelis Dabrelis wrote:

But what is the algorythm, if I attack with swords and cavalry?
Say got 1000 attack points in swords, and 1000 in cavalry.

In this case the server calculates attack share of each troop type (in your case it's 50% infantry and 50% cavalry), then calculates defense score against all attacking troop types and takes corresponding shares of each. In your example total def score would consist of 50% infantry def score + 50% cavalry def score.

So if we assume a defending army of 200 units all having say 15 infantry def and 12 cavalry def values, then 

Total Defense score = 200*15*0.5 + 200*12*0.5 = 1500 + 1200 = 2700

Thus, in Illy battle mechanic it's actually possible to make an attack outcome worse by adding more troops. If you are attacking spears with a ranged army and decide to add up equipped elite cavalry commanders in hope of better performance - boy, are you in for a nasty surprise.



Edited by Sene - 01 Jun 2018 at 13:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2018 at 13:27
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

The equation is roughly:

Attack = total attack points * terrain modifier * equipment * commander bonuses
...
Defense = total defense points vs that attack type * terrain modifier * equipment * commander bonuses * wall bonus

sorry, man, but that's wrong. All bonuses are grouped together into 2 multiplier or modifier: (let's call it) General one and Crafted one. 

Attack = attack score * general modifier * crafted modifier;
Defense = defense score * general modifier * crafted modifier.

General modifier includes terrain bonuses / penalty, commander's division attack/defense skil bonus, biome and pres bonus; GM = 1 + (TB% + DB% + BB% + PB%)/100
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2018 at 13:18
Originally posted by Lotharblack Lotharblack wrote:

What will happen if an attacking army with sufficient attack value to kill all defenders meet with a defending army with sufficient defend value to kill all attackers? (The answer "Chuck Norris dies " is considered invalid)

I've seen several zero survivors victory battles. I think it happens when the difference between total attack and defense score of the rival armies is less than 0,01%. It's quite difficult to make that match but if you try hard, you will succeed:) Since there are a number of factors influencing both attack and defense score, it's next to impossible to make them totally equal and set up 'Attack = Defense' battle. But I presume both sides would just loose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 20:56
Losses are always proportional, I believe. So if the total defense is 1/3 of the attack points, you will lose 33% of the army. That 33% will be applied to all armies and divisions equally (approximately). There is a PDF somewhere that explains the math behind mixed troop types on attack. I haven't read it in years.

Functionally, almost all attacking armies will be homogenous, due to the way that city specialization works in Illyriad.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Celebrant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 19:04
Word Illyriad in its roots has ill.



Love you all Ill-yrians.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sauron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 18:40
Originally posted by Lotharblack Lotharblack wrote:



- What will happen if an attacking army with sufficient attack value to kill all defenders meet with a defending army with sufficient defend value to kill all attackers? (The answer "Chuck Norris dies " is considered invalid) 



What happens is a battle report showing 'mutual destructution'. I have only seen it once or twice and that was from a forwarded npc hunting message, its so rare that many players that have played for years have yet to encounter such a battle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dabrelis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 16:11
Another question. On arythmetics but on topic.

It is more or less clear when attack comes from one type.
Say 1000 attack points from swords, then you compare to sword defense points for all units and - voila!

But what is the algorythm, if I attack with swords and cavalry?
Say got 1000 attack points in swords, and 1000 in cavalry.

Opponent has a group that can gather 2000 defense points for swords (if all were to defend swords) OR 1500 defense points for cavalry (if all were to defend cavalry).

What is the algorithm there?

I should win I guess, with swords annihilated, and cavalry still on 1/4 size.. did I get it right?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dabrelis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 09:01
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

It's an "A minus D" combat engine. There are slight variations due to the way casualties are calculated. Generally if it will cost 1000 attackers to kill a particular defender, it doesn't matter if you send 1001 troops, 10000 or 100000. You will lose approximately 1000 in all cases.

Due to the way Heroism works, in micro-battle scenarios like hunting, there is a weird little bump in the curve where sending more troops can cause more casualties. That seems to flatten out very quickly as army sizes climb, and the effect of Heroism becomes negligible.

Thanks Ten Kulch, makes sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 07:48
It's an "A minus D" combat engine. There are slight variations due to the way casualties are calculated. Generally if it will cost 1000 attackers to kill a particular defender, it doesn't matter if you send 1001 troops, 10000 or 100000. You will lose approximately 1000 in all cases.

Due to the way Heroism works, in micro-battle scenarios like hunting, there is a weird little bump in the curve where sending more troops can cause more casualties. That seems to flatten out very quickly as army sizes climb, and the effect of Heroism becomes negligible.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 07:12
Originally posted by Dabrelis Dabrelis wrote:

There is a strange thing that I noticed.
Apparently defenders are kind of “guaranteed” to kill a constant numbers of attackers.

What I mean?
If I use 26 axmen I would kill bunch of animals and lose 8 guys.
If instead I use 30 axmen, I would still kill animals, but lose more - 9 or 10. I could not achieve less than 8 losses, regardless of how many men I fielded.

The implication for hunting is that killing whatever beast comes at almost constant cost. Maybe it can be decreased by having better commanders and/or adding equipment. But NOT by having extra numbers.


Are you hitting precisely the same number of animals? Look at your reports - my hunch is that it's a slight variation of NPC pack size. You can kill NPCs with zero losses in certain circumstances. If you consider the equation TenK provided above, it's clear that you have to exchange N units' worth of attack points for N defenders' worth of defense points. Zero or near-zero losses occur when the NPC pack did so little damage that percentage wise it's not even enough to kill one unit in your division. For example, if the resulting damage was 1% and you have less than 100 units. These kinds of ratios are achieved by using elite divisions and commander's heroism (see Ten Kulch's blog for details), as you have to have few units and a lot of commander attack points. Still occasionally you'll get a unit or two clipped this way, especially if you have 3-4 elite divisions the fractions from each division will add up to a number greater than 1.


Edited by Tink XX - 16 Jan 2018 at 07:13
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