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HonoredMule View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Resources Taxonomy
    Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 21:16
Actually, I just looked up that thread, and it lists Gold as a basic resource.  But only advanced thieves currently collect gold.

In fact I've been trying for quite some time to make heads of the various terminology for resource subsets for the wiki* and it's quite a mess indeed.  Perhaps someone with a clearer mind could offer a clear set of guidelines or definitions?  There seems to be variance exceeding even the number of different ways in which resources may be affected.

*Regarding this wiki, I am not really able to handle guests in volume yet (a hardware upgrade is in the works) but it will be open to the public soon.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 23:25
At the risk of muddying the waters further, let me have a brief go here...

The key to it is the Resource Display Window at the top of the ingame screen.

The Basic Resources accumulate hourly (with the correct building/tax rate etc in place), without requiring player action to produce, and are:
Wood
Clay
Iron
Stone

Food
Gold
Mana
Research

making up the first 2 columns of the resource display window at the top of the ingame screen.  All of these are considered "basic resources" for the purposes of most ingame functions such as 'theft', 'raiding' and 'vault protection', with the exception of mana and research (which cannot - currently anyway - be stolen and therefore do not need protection).

The Advanced Resources are all the others, because they require player action to build, and use (predominantly) basic resources in their construction. 

These Advanced Resources split into two types:

Most of these are "pure" end-products such as Swords, Bows, Spears, Saddles, Siege Blocks and all the Armour types, which are used in the ultimate production of a unit.  These are contained in the rightmost two columns of the resource display window at the top of the ingame screen.

The middle column contains items that are sometimes end product, and sometimes refinable further.

For example, livestock can occasionally be an end product (in the casting of some spells as a sacrifice) but is mostly used in a "second tier" production capacity (leather armour and saddles).  Books are most often an end product (in spells, and in some unit production), but are also re-refinable back into research.

And even those basic resources fundamentally split into 2 (and a half?) subtypes - the ones produced in the fields outside the city, the one (gold) produced by taxation, and the 2 that cannot be stolen (mana and research).

I completely accept that it would be desirable to get a consistent set of terminology throughout the game.  I'm not sure what that precise terminology should be, and I'm sure you're right that this lack of clarity spills over into the descriptions themselves.

Best wishes,


Edited by GM Stormcrow - 28 Mar 2010 at 18:49
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HonoredMule View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 02:37
If you wish to see the progress of my attempts to build up a taxonomy and classification for the resources, I can provide a link in private.  In that attempt, I'm working on including any references to in-game usage of the terminology which may assist in clearing up the in-game descriptions later, though some of the terminology has arisen only out of conversation and want of better ability to speak concisely in regard to various activities, such as training units, producing other resources, or protecting resources from various other activities.

In total, I have defined or am attempting to define the following terms encountered or fabricated so far, based on either in-game usage or common attributes:

* Primary
  - Includes: wood, clay, iron, stone, food, gold, mana, and research
  - Exclusive Attribute: all are generated on an hourly basis
  - Other Shared Attributes: none
  - Reference: somewhere in-game

* Secondary
  - Includes: complement of Primary
  - Exclusive Attribute: all are produced on demand
  - Other Shared Attributes: all protected by the smaller vault value
  - Reference: somewhere in-game, I think

* Base
  - Includes: wood, clay, iron, stone, food, gold
  - Exclusive Attribute: protected by larger vault value
  - Other Shared Attributes: all used to produce other resources and not produced from other resources (though gold sort of is)
  - Reference: vault summary page

* Stored
  - Includes: wood, clay, iron, stone, food
  - Exclusive Attribute: all require storage space
  - Other Shared Attributes: raidable, stolen by tier 1 thieves, protected by larger vault value
  - Reference: none

* Basic
  - Includes: wood, clay, iron, stone, food, beer, books
  - Exclusive Attribute: require tier 1 thief to steal
  - Other Shared Attributes: none
  - Reference: term in "Craftsmanship" description, resource list in "Theft" description.

Advanced
  - Includes: complement of Base
  - Exclusive Attribute: protected by smaller vault value
  - Other Shared Attributes: cannot be raided
  - Reference: vault summary page

* Production/Construction
  - Includes: wood, clay, iron, stone
  - Exclusive Attribute: the only resources needed for building construction/upgrades
  - Other Shared Attributes: raidable, stolen by tier 1 thieves, protected by larger vault value
  - Reference: none

* Produce
  - Includes: gold, horses, livestock, beer, books
  - Exclusive Attribute: require "Bartering" to ship
  - Other Shared Attributes: require tier 2 thief to steal, cannot be raided
  - Reference: none

* Basic Military Goods:
  - Includes: spears, swords, bows, leather armour
  - Exclusive Attribute: require "Bartering"->"Trading" to ship
  - Other Shared Attributes: require tier 2 thief to steal, cannot be raided, protected by smaller vault value
  - Reference: description of "Trading" (previously "Trade" I think)

* Advanced Military Goods
  - Includes: saddles, chainmail, plate armour, and siege blocks
  - Exclusive Attribute: require "Bartering"->"Trading"->"Mercantilism" to ship
  - Other Shared Attributes: cannot be raided, protected by smaller vault value
  - Reference: description of "Mercantilism"

Equipment
  - Includes: spears, swords, bows, leather armour, plate armour, and siege blocks (saddles were originally included as well)
  - Exclusive Attribute: needed for military uses
  - Other Shared Attributes: none
  - Reference: none

Several resources, like horses, livestock, and saddles, do not clearly fit into any category larger than themselves at all.

The resources are one of the richest and most well thought out subsystems in the game.  Unfortunately, the intense nuances of their various uses does defy simplification and shared understanding/clarity when just trying to describe needs and vulnerabilities.  For example, "You're just building up right now so you only need to worry about ______ resources."  Supposing we can clearly agree on which resources are being referenced, which term clearly references them?

In some cases, the attributes of a single resource are not fully known.  For example, I doubt anyone has a clue if any of the advanced resources require storage space, and for a while my mates did not know gold doesn't require storage space.  All these really steepen the learning curve, and I'm stumped at finding a way to make this all fit into a table, illustration or concise explanation that makes it all make sense to a newcomer or even someone just trying to keep it all straight.

Edited by HonoredMule - 28 Mar 2010 at 23:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 18:47
Moved over from Diplo changes thread
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 19:05
Hi HM,

Very interesting work there.

Personally, I think the resources divide, absolutely without exception, into 2 categories from the get-go:  Produced Hourly & Produced On Demand, and this is the major division (what we have generally referred to as "Basic" and "Advanced" in the documentation).

When things are a little quieter and I have some more time I'll have a go at producing a table that tried to encompass the major attributes, and post it here for comments, thought etc.

Best,
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2010 at 22:08
That sounds like a clearer, more purpose-oriented description of "Primary" and "Secondary" resources--something which all the terms try to be.  My interpretation of "Basic" and "Advanced" resources may be faulty, in which case I can neatly merge these two divisions...that would be a nice simplification.  One still needs a term to match the "resource list in 'Theft' description," but since theft requirements are changing, maybe that problem will just to away...or get worse, I haven't tried to match up the new behavior yet.

Other terminology just comes out of a need to understand the attributes they represent...such as "Stored" resources.  To my knowledge, that distinction is never clarified anywhere in-game, yet it's a critical detail to know.  Believing one has to invest in the storehouse further before gold overflows, for example, is a costly mistake at least some have made.
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