Play Now Login Create Account
illyriad
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Is using weapons on troops worth it
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Is using weapons on troops worth it

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
KarL Aegis View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 270
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KarL Aegis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is using weapons on troops worth it
    Posted: 25 Oct 2018 at 00:48
Everything in the game is situational. 
I am not amused.
Back to Top
glumetzul View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 09 Jul 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glumetzul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 13:47
Thanks for all the feedback, it did make a difference to clear my head on this subject.

I should add that I realise that the "cost" can be lower by hunting and gathering my own ingredients. My point was that, even if I do that, if those ingredients are valued so much on the market I may be better off selling them, or crafting the item and selling it afterwards, rather than equipping armies with them.

All in all I guess that in defense it's a sensible idea to equip armies since you're likely to recover the items after being attacked. And in attack they make sense either in emergency situations where you really need that extra punch or if equipping the strongest units like Human T2 Cavalry, but even that deppends a bit on the item.
Back to Top
SirBradly View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster
Avatar

Joined: 24 Oct 2018
Location: Plains of Arran
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SirBradly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 03:41
I agree with alot of the points Hucbold brought up.

I would also add much of it can be related to the troop type you focus on.  A human player making Knights at 65 attack does get much more "point value" for the gear.  Whereas an orc mass producing t1 spearmen would get very little return on investment using gear in the field.

All gear is 100% recoverable within city walls so that's always worth using.

Hunting and making gear is a large commitment of time.  So you have to factor in how active vs casual you want to be.

SB
Back to Top
Hucbold View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith
Avatar

Joined: 20 Nov 2015
Location: Meilla
Status: Offline
Points: 158
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Hucbold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 00:37
I'm a big fan of having massive amounts of equipment and occasionally frightening one's enemies by using it! 

However consider the following points:
1. A human T2 cav has an attack value of 65 - a terrain spear or armour adds 39 to that. T1 spears (all races) have a defence against cav value of 13 - so a terrain spear or armour adds 7.8 to that. Those figures have to be modified for terrain afterwards. So the gear is worth different values to different troop types even though they 'cost' the same - whatever your measure of cost is.
2. You can make spears faster than swords and swords faster than bows - so the 'time cost' of spears is less.
3. The terrain specific gear gives a +60% bonus so +120% is possible for all terrains except buildings. The skins needed are common (rats, dogs, bears in particular). So a person who hunts can easily stockpile the gear - my stockpiles of both weapons and armours are in 6 figures and some are close to 7 figures.
4. Some military players don't hunt - meaning they would have to buy the gear. They look at the economics of that and generally reject the idea. That's a choice.
5. To craft effectively, you needs lots of skinners and specialised smiths. That means big population cities and many military players dont like that as its harder to move them. I craft big scale - close to 3k skinners and can craft all the specialised terrain spears at rates between 80-100 per hour and armour at about half that rate. I frequently have more than 10k stuff out there to gather to craft.
6. Gear has NO upkeep per hour, whereas troops DO.
7. You don't lose all the gear when you use it - you may be able to gather some of it, depending on where the battle occurs.
8. You can transfer gear between towns as fast as you can spend pres! You cannot transfer troops.
9. When you do use gear you lose 45.5% of what you would have lost if you sent unarmed troops - and have cut the rebuild time accordingly - your enemy may be building kobolds in the desert with high sov bonuses but they'll find it hard to match that bonus (assuming its on top of miltary sov of your own).
10. Most things in Illy are, in fact, free. The only real costs are pres and your time. Crafting, on a massive scale, helps with both. 

The choices are yours to make. It depends what game you want to play. I am only making the point that there is a way to look at gear that makes it desirable.

Back to Top
Dungshoveleux View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster


Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 869
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dungshoveleux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 19:08
No-one manufactures by buying all the materials. The "cost" of using the materials is the buy-offer price or just below it. The sell-offer price is only what you THINK the materials are worth.  The reason why most manufactured goods sell for below the sum selling cost of their components is because people are optimistic/greedy and most people regard self manufactured goods as being "free".

Edited by Dungshoveleux - 23 Oct 2018 at 19:12
Back to Top
Llannedd View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 138
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Llannedd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 17:15
There are also buildings that reduce the cost of troop upkeep, and you can have more than one of them per city. At level 20 1st building reduces upkeep by 30%, 2nd reduces by 15% (each gives half the bonus of the previous). So with 2 buildings of the same type you reduce upkeep by 45%. Similar buildings and stats exist for diplo units as well.
Back to Top
General Lacesso View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith
Avatar

Joined: 08 Mar 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 139
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote General Lacesso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 15:55
You should also consider what you are using the army for. If it is to just hunt then there is no good reason to equip your army. Just my opinion though.
Back to Top
glumetzul View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 09 Jul 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glumetzul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 14:37
Originally posted by Dessembrae Dessembrae wrote:

You are forgetting another one of the main factors,the cost of troops per hour.
Not exactly forgetting, I'm just trying to understand how relevant that is.

If a Pikeman costs me 1325 gold to train, and the upkeep is 3 gold / hour, it takes about 18 days of having him idle until he was better of not being trained at all. Or course some people would rather accept the loss rather than be unprepared, it depends on personal strategy I suppose.

Nof if I add a Plainsman's Spear to him, he's 60% more effective, so instead of keeping 1000 pikemen, I only have to keep 625, so that's a 37.5% reduction in number and thus in upkeep. I could translate this as in each Plainsman's Spear saving me 1.125 gold per hour. With an initial investment of 13485 it turns out it becomes profitable after about 500 days. 

I get the idea of having some troops always available but 500 days of keeping them idle is a bit much. If there's a good chance that I won't need those troops in 500 days, I think I'm better off not having them at all and just training them when I need them.

PS: As mentioned before, only today I realised that defensive equipment is theoretically always recovered, unless I reinforced some faraway square, so this changes my previous points, I can see how investing in defensive equipment can be a good idea for long term.
Back to Top
Dessembrae View Drop Down
Greenhorn
Greenhorn


Joined: 21 Sep 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dessembrae Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 14:06
You are forgetting another one of the main factors,the cost of troops per hour.
AKA Agalloch The Rude
Back to Top
glumetzul View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 09 Jul 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote glumetzul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 13:32
After a bit more research, I feel like I may have partially answered my own question. It's about the defensive items dropping back to the defender and being reusable, right?

Still, that doesn't explain why someone would use attack items, except emergencies.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.