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Court of Petitioners

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Thexion View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Apr 2018 at 12:36
Well I could see a situation with illy mechanics that expansive "old" alliance would capture cities that get fully researched and big enough from nb alliance(s) but actually since there is so much quitting players I have never had to build research myself after first 5 towns. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2018 at 20:28
I agree that there is no game mechanics value in farming newbs and that's probably the main reason why it's pretty much non-existent in Illy. The side effect of this lack of threat is that it breeds a certain sense of complacency and even an expectation that you won't be attacked. Ever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2018 at 18:29
Originally posted by Tink XX Tink XX wrote:

In another game, you'd be farmed the minute your little city popped up on the map.

To be fair, in other games there is value to farming new players. Usually advancement requires increasing amounts of basic resources that imply either farming or real money purchases. Other titles encourage the capture of cities from other players.

What I think people miss about Illyriad is that it has a rich meta-game. There aren't precious resources to control, there is little value to farming weaker alliances. Most interaction is purely voluntary. Therefore, Illyriad is about relationships. Intentionally existing in a vacuum is a terrible idea in this game.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2018 at 16:53
I've always marveled at the all-newb alliances in Illy. Players want to strike it out on their own in a persistent and well-populated world without having any experience, connections, or resources, and then go whine on the forums and appeal to non-existing "laws" the minute they get messed with.

In another game, you'd be farmed the minute your little city popped up on the map. In Illyriad, new players by convention are given a wide berth and showered with resources. But how long should this conventional "rainbow" last and should it cover not just individual players but entire alliances? At some point, you have to embrace the fact that it's a game that has things like military action built into it. This is not a zero friction game by design, so just toughen up a little and investigate your options out of this conflict. I'm afraid they've narrowed down considerably since your post.


Edited by Tink XX - 04 Apr 2018 at 16:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2018 at 01:32
The court of public opinion in this game is limited to lynch mobs against players who are already unable to defend themselves. That phenomenon, I have seen many times.

To counter a strong adversary in this game, you need either actual strength or impeccable diplomacy.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wartow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2018 at 00:47
The court of public opinion is not to be underestimated.  It can rally others to counter what is viewed as unjust and it can be used to attach a negative label to individuals who prefer to wear their crazy on their sleeves for all to see.

No further in-game mechanic necessary to "right" perceived "wrongs".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2018 at 00:39
Originally posted by Emerson Emerson wrote:

Assurances that the community will protect those with no ambition to play PvP are well and good until the attacks happen.

Nobody assures that. The community standard is that we don't assault new players, excluding ones with atrocious manners. Established alliances and players are on their own. Sometimes white knights will ride to rescue victims of injustice, but that's largely just a fanciful notion proposed by irrelevant parties.
Originally posted by Emerson Emerson wrote:

You, as an older player, must have some ideas that will work without completely turning Illyriad on its head. That's all I'm asking for here.

1. Excerise good diplomacy. If you are severely outmatched by an opponent, then I recommend deference and a painful degree of politeness. Focusing on the unfairness is counterproductive.
2. Don't refuse to roll over unless you can withstand the consequences of fighting.
3. GC and the forums are worse than useless for getting military aid. Normally all it does is inflame or delight the attacker. Back channels are best for courting allies. Incidentally, you should have allies before you actually require them. Nobody wants to risk consequences from trying to save a doomed situation. The best way to have allies is to be an attractive ally yourself.

Your overall assumption is that some kind of NPC "court" would help you. But any game mechanism is likely to be dominated by the most powerful alliances. The best solution is to deal with these kinds of situations gracefully, because lacking military power, your personal abilities at diplomacy are the only thing standing between your alliance and ruin.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emerson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2018 at 00:17
I have no problem with your experience. In fact, I've gained a lot of knowledge from your blog.

Just as you cannot conclusively prove the absence of something with 100% certainty, I don't have total recall or photographic memory so I can't give you names of players making those posts in GC. Let's not belabor the point.

As for community retaliation, I would like to believe that. It would be nice, but most of the members of our alliance believe that asking for help against unprovoked military or diplo attacks in GC just paints a target on our backs. There have been 3 incidents in just the past 5 months against our alliance with no provocation on our part. We were following convention like we were supposed to.

But those are over and done with. Assurances that the community will protect those with no ambition to play PvP are well and good until the attacks happen. My idea was to have a form of redress - formalized - that players and alliances can use to ask for help, be it the community at large or a sovereign power.

You, as an older player, must have some ideas that will work without completely turning Illyriad on its head. That's all I'm asking for here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2018 at 00:03
My suggestion is to leave things exactly as they are.

It boils down to the same old discussion: do traders/crafters have the right to live in peace? Imho the answer is only if they can manage to preserve that peace themselves (by military might, shrewd diplomacy, bribes, whatever). So, if it happens that trading alliance nr.1248 with 4 members that login roughly twice a week runs afoul of a major military alliance they need to find a way to deal with that without looking to the devs to solve their problems.

On a sidenote: It may sound harsh, but sometimes alliances are just not viable. There are a ridiculous amount of tiny alliances that all proclaim to have more or less the same values (mostly: we are a peaceful alliance of traders...) and yet they insist on remaining seperate entities devoid of even the slightest influence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Ubiquitous Feral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2018 at 00:00
Start over, Emerson. Tell us what actually happened and who was involved. Facts, please. As far as people talking in GC, I see it too. It is people joking with each other. They aren't really going to take from a newb unless the newb is an alt or the newb is a troll. And stop changing the story. Tell the truth and stick to it.
I am a Machine.
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