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Brids17 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 20:01
I wonder when people are going to realize that honor is overrated. Every time someone calls themselves honorable, when they do something possibly seen as not honorable, they hit harder by it than anyone else would. I bet if this was DB doing this, the overall response would be something like "Those jerks again?" and not "How could you do something like this!?".

Edit: I should point out I have no problem with DB, I was just using them as an example since it seems many people don't see them as exactly an "honorable" alliance.


Edited by Brids17 - 04 May 2011 at 20:03
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Lionz Heartz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 20:16
Okay.

Basically, H?, is sending armies to hold squares that spawn NPCs. They are sending these armies near towns of the best players of VALAR. Thus, H? is holding squares for 14 days that spawn NPC targets. And since H? states these armies are only being sent by afk alt accounts. I also assume to hold these squares, H? has a good amount of troops holding them. Otherwise, if their were a small amount of troops occupying, I feel it would be a good idea for VALAR to remove H? from these squares since H?'s strategy is effecting spawn rates for them.

I also heard about the use of diplomats being used and even caravans... Can someone shed light as to how these are used and what outcomes it has on a square spawning NPCs?

Are diplomats able to keep resource spawns active till the diplomat arrives? Are diplomats able to keep a spawn square inactive till the diplomat arrives? Can a diplomat deactivate a NPC holding square and then spawn up a another NPC onto that square which may be bigger?

I assume caravans are being used much the same way troops are being used but are used to gather resources instead of killing NPC's to hold square etc... If I remember reading right... VALAR has been using caravans to gather resources that spawn NPC and resources to prohibit H? from using that square to kill NPCs. In retaliation I also remember H? destroying VALAR's caravans to open up the square again.   
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PS: How is that bounty going for you Kumo? Perhaps you need to raise the gold amount in order for my alliance to give me up.

Edited by Lionz Heartz - 04 May 2011 at 20:29
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HonoredMule View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 21:59
For as many people as hold us to an inequitable standard, others stand by us for our honesty and reliability.  I've said before that Harmless serves as a "proof of concept" that centered, upright behavior can be successful and opens as many strategic and political doors as it closes.

Case in point: if we told Valar we would stop diplomats, I believe they would do the same without waiting for our days-out parties to finish arriving, because they would believe we were telling the truth.  (I am not making this promise, but only offer it as an example.)  In this scenario, we cannot lie to Valar for a temporary advantage, but we can bring about an immediate change.

Another example: we basically have no known enemies and very trustworthy allies.  If we ruled by strength alone, we would face a constant vigil against challengers and changing diplomatic tides.  War is fun.  Constant war is very tiring.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 22:42
At the end of the day boys and girls its a game, and no game is ever won without bending breaking or taking advantage of the rules, so you guys are telling me you never stole a couple of 100's in monopoly whilst your mum took a phone call, or you called "go fish" when you really shouldn't of, lighten up guys, its an interesting tactic that now spruces up an otherwise getting stale tournament.
 
Just take it in your stride and have some fun with it. Also you could just use the tactic yourself, nothing stopping you from doing that.
 
Its nearly over anyway so just chill out have a laugh and get some good banter going afterwards ;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 22:49
*cough* have never stolen monopoly money.  I have only the vaguest of memories of playing Go Fish, and finding a coin flip about as engaging.  I do the "playing nice and making friends" thing in Monopoly too, often resulting in someone selling out to me at bargain prices when a 3rd party ultimately squeezes them out of the game.  That tends to be the moment of my assured victory.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2011 at 00:47
I have to say I have no objection to sending large armies to occupy NPC squares for time poor players and I applaud H? for being clever with the use of diplomats, however I belive that the GM's should have removed the diplomat feature shortly after it was discovered as it doesn't make much sense.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2011 at 01:22
Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

I do the "playing nice and making friends" thing in Monopoly too, often resulting in someone selling out to me at bargain prices when a 3rd party ultimately squeezes them out of the game.  That tends to be the moment of my assured victory.
Sweet, delicious revenge...served cold.  mmmm, tasty.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2011 at 01:35
Originally posted by col0005 col0005 wrote:

I have to say I have no objection to sending large armies to occupy NPC squares for time poor players and I applaud H? for being clever with the use of diplomats, however I belive that the GM's should have removed the diplomat feature shortly after it was discovered as it doesn't make much sense.


Can you explain to me how the diplomat exploit works and what it does?
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Brids17 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2011 at 08:09
It does the same thing sending an army does, stops the square from refreshing. So if you send it at a legion of salamanders and it's a 4 day travel, those salamanders will sit there for 4 days until the diplos arrive. This could have been solved either by A) balancing the drop rates and making it actually worth it to attack large groups of NPCs or B) by removing this pointless feature all together.

I can understand NPCs not refreshing when an army is sent, since otherwise it'd be very difficult to get a hold of various animal parts if you're cities are all in one spot but diplos will just get there, do nothing then return. The tactic would be fine it it required you to give up commanders to send armies with siege engines at NPC squares but with diplos, you lose nothing in sending them and it serves no purpose. 
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HonoredMule View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2011 at 10:09
Outside the scope of this tournament, the feature was far from pointless.  Small players were getting screwed by attempts to farm small parties which would re-spawn as legions while troops were in transit.  One could argue it should not be necessary to make diplomats lock tiles, but there is no other reasonable way (aside from knowledgeable handling of a potentially inconvenient spawn schedule) to get an accurate report on party strength before launching the troops which will lock it down.  (Launch a scout to report, and while in transit, launch another to buy time between receiving the report and launching troops.)  It's likely more complicated to differentiate diplo transit from military transit in this context anyway.

In the context of the tournament, restricting the lock to diplomats would not be an effective fix.  Using spare commanders from underpowered cities would actually be a much more effective means of locking tiles.  Send one low-level commander and one of your slowest units to attack a legion, and it'll take 3-6 days easily--diplos average 1-2.  Send it stealth for good measure, and it will never even appear on the map--invisible heading out, and no return trip.  Even if it did, it's just another of the many troops running around during the tournament, probably from someone nearby.

Do this with stealth alts outside the alliance, and now you're in the realm of underhanded tactics.  With this method, the alliance-vs-alliance balancing factor of 100-account limit practically disappears, and the limit only applies to the 100 developed accounts that will reap the rewards.  You'd never get caught by your competitors, especially if all your competitors reported an annoying number of NPCs and legions, and your members parroted the same complaint.  At that point, where does one even cast suspicions?

On the other hand, I wouldn't consider it nearly so underhanded to pay actual outsiders to help in this manner.  I'm surprised no one appears to have paid other alliances to assist in either tournament--it would have made the competitions much more interesting.  It also would be an appealing proposition to smaller alliances who haven't a chance of victory but might enjoy the payout you can offer.  Of course they may reveal your dealings/plans, but that's an appropriate risk to such scheming.
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