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Createure View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2011 at 21:12
Originally posted by Azreil Azreil wrote:

a.  The legion-locker tactic is actually not a clever nor an effective tactic to clinch the advantage in this tournament.

I assume you realise that no one in H? is going to argue with you here? It's no skin off our back if you think our tactics are poor.
 
b.  I think that H? considered it "clever" when it thought that it had hegemony over the idea, during the time that it thought no one would else would be "clever" enough to think of the same.
 
No one else did think of the same. The reason everyone knows about it now is because H? has demonstrated it in use. I always heard that imitation was the greatest form of flattery.

d. And H? resorting to the use of the tactic has disturbed such coherence and balance in the tournament.

Yes we did disturb the balance. That was our intention. And "The Balance" that you speak of is the one where VALAR was confortably sailing unopposed towards certain victory.
 
e.  I will also agree with the observation that the tactic somehow solidified the Valar more and that in the end, we the Valar will look back at this opportunity of having locked horns with H? in this intellectual debate and the mental battles behind this tournament.

And we do agree on something. This has indeed allowed two competitors in this tournament to enter into a more direct form of competition. This also was our intention. Competition is fun. Farming is not.
 
 
Cheers to you our worthy opponents!  Keep up the good hunt. The tournament is not yet done. 

Likewise. You guys are more than worthy opponents. This tourny has been fun so far and maybe it will get even more exciting towards the end. Who knows? VALAR knows?


I gotta admit I will be glad when this is over too regardless of the result. It'll be nice getting a bunch of free-time back!


Edited by Createure - 03 May 2011 at 21:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2011 at 23:07
Azreil, our tactic may or may not work as intended.  At this point, it appears you've catalyzed your members well with enough righteous fury to hold the lead.  Whatever the means, may the best alliance win.  That will probably be Valar, and I shall be the first to congratulate you all.  And I appreciate your distaste for having faced an unexpected form of opposition.  But I very much take exception to continued attempts, by yourself and others who speak for your alliance, to brand it as "a questionable exploit."

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

We feel absolutely 100% that this is not an exploit...It's a clever, legitimate use of an ingame mechanic to hamper a competitor's tournament progress.


Calling it an exploit is a smear with no purpose but to wage a slander war and encourage negative opinions toward us.  Doing so will have no influence on the outcome of the tournament, and I doubt it sways the opinions in other alliances either.  You don't like it.  Fair enough.  Anti-Harmless propaganda that elegantly dances around inconvenient facts has likely been a valuable tool to motivate the membership.  But persisting with this already refuted slur in public only shows everyone else your character.  Simply put, you color our name with blatantly false and only thinly veiled accusations, and you do so completely without justification or even purpose, save to falsely besmirch our honor.  We have not earned this insult.  I will not bear any grudge regarding this, but you should realize exactly what you are doing and that we recognize it for what it is.

So, setting aside this implied and unfounded insult, can you please clarify the exact nature of your complaint?  You say we have "disturbed such coherence and balance."  What exactly is now unbalanced?  You speak of fearing this becoming a normal acceptable thing in the game."  What exactly is wrong with that?  Attacking and sieging cities is one of the core, intrinsic mechanics of the game--very much intentionally so.  So also is the use of diplomats to kill commanders, steal resources, find out about the strength of your army encampments, etc--even with difficulty, sometimes near impossibility, in uncovering the aggressor.  Who will be the defenseless victims plagued by "legions camping nearby?" 

Suppose there actually is someone negatively impacted by an enemy employing this tactic.  Heck, I'll even offer an example of how it might matter at all: perhaps someone with an incoming siege attack will ensure legions stick around to help him defend an adjacent tile.  Whatever the case, any "victim" has the freedom to seek redress according to whatever offense or grudge he bears, as he would for an offense by any other means.  Game mechanics don't kill people, people kill people.

The most pivotal question in all this is the premise no one in Valar has even attempted to address, and without it you have no case whatsoever:

What harm was done?

Are your cities in rubble?  Have your armies been poisoned?  Have you been robbed of some thing you were entitled to attain?  Is all that you've built in this game suddenly for naught?  Do legions of giant rats taunt you and recite Vogon poetry in the town square?  We have altered the progress of the tournament, as is the very thing we're supposed to try to do when losing.

There have been great volumes of talk, rhetoric, and outpouring of anguish.  Far more in fact than I could possibly have imagined coming from a very simple attempt to merely slow down a competitor.  But not a single attempt has been made yet to actually respond to any of my original points by explaining, in factual terms, how a problem actually exists and how Valar have been mistreated.  And it's no surprise, for you simply have not been.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 00:36
Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

We feel absolutely 100% that this is not an exploit...It's a clever, legitimate use of an ingame mechanic to hamper a competitor's tournament progress.


1.You don't like it. 

2.Do legions of giant rats taunt you and recite Vogon poetry in the town square? 

3. But not a single attempt has been made yet to actually respond to any of my original points by explaining, in factual terms, how a problem actually exists and how Valar have been mistreated.  And it's no surprise, for you simply have not been.


Simply put VALAR, (IMO) this is simply a case of sour grapes. You wish us to conduct the tournament on your terms (whereby you have the distinct advantage) and we, not surprisingly, differ in opinion.

Calling into question our honour and questioning our conduct in this matter is childish, petty, factually incorrect and frankly says more about the character of the accuser than the accused.

Post Script: That Vogon poetry line kills me. We love our Mule. Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 06:18

Hi HM,

With an effort to be succinct, and from both a personal and a leadership standpoint, please understand the following:

1. We the Valar did not and do not intend to malign the honor of H and wage any form of "slander war" against it.

2. We did not, have not, nor intended to insult H?

3. The exact nature of our complaint has already been directed via petition to the game devs.

4. We respect and shall abide by the decision and position of the game developers with respect to its definition of an "exploit."

5. By posting in this forum, I believe that we are no longer complaining but just responding and presenting our side of the story in a forum which you have started.

6. My personal post in this thread and the posts of Dakota, duQ and Boromir are legitimate opinions and free expressions of feedback about an aspect of the game which we shall leave to the game devs to sort out. 

7. Insinuating against our character just because we are expressing our own opinions is hitting below the belt already. I could just hope we respect each other's opinion rather than resort to such "character attacks."

8. I believe that the merits and demerits of balance and coherence in the game are something that could be discussed in the realms of debate and game improvement, which I do not wish nor have to time nor mastery to be engaging in.

9. We have expressed our "distaste" for your tactic. Now you are expressing your own distaste of our expressing our distaste. So i guess we are now even.

10. You said you will not begrudge us beyond the tournament. Similarly here, we will not begrudge H? All part of the game, as everyone is wont to say. 

11. This shall be my final post as far as this topic is concerned. I don't relish the rhetoric either.


Best regards,


Azreil






Edited by Azreil - 04 May 2011 at 07:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 06:41
Quote
"1. We the Valar did not and do not intend to malign the honor of H and wage any form of "slander war" against it.

 2. We believe we all don't want to be bigots here.


When has H or any H? affiliate ever suggested that Valar is a bad entity, MUCH less suggested that it's worthy of slander to the effect that it is some sort of racist entity where they are "bigots"...

If you persist in this train of slander, Azreil, we will declare war on you and you will truly find out whether you are "as good as H?"...




Edited by Kumomoto - 04 May 2011 at 06:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 06:53

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 06:54
mark your words carefully.



Edited by Kumomoto - 04 May 2011 at 06:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 06:57
Hey Kumomoto, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? There is no slander.  Are you guys just looking for a reason to declare war???? !!!  Go ahead....  I will just as easily quit the game..... couldnt care less if this is how H? people are behaving

I have just tried to present a polite, rational and diplomatic closure to the issue and you come  yelling war.... 




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 07:01
Originally posted by Azreil Azreil wrote:

Hey Kumomoto, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? There is no slander.  Are you guys just looking for a reason to declare war???? !!!  Go ahead....  I will just as easily quit the game..... couldnt care less if this is how H? people are behaving

I have just tried to present a polite, rational and diplomatic closure to the issue and you come  yelling war.... 



Oh. Your idea of a polite, rational discussion is calling someone a racist?

Well done! You should be a graduate of SOAS or Kennedy School (Woody Woo woo or Gtown SFS would have prepared you better!

Who called who a "Bigot" matey?

So you think you can call me and my mates Bigots and get away with it?

Do you even know who we are? or where we come from? Where is the "Bigot" term coming from?

Cause it offends me... but I'm often more easily offended than my fellow directors, so I'll sleep on it and let them see if they're offended...

Kumo





Edited by Kumomoto - 04 May 2011 at 07:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2011 at 07:08
I have said that was my final post. No malice no insult no slander intended. But closure and I hope conciliation.  Removed the offensive word. Hope it satisfies you. 

Edited by Azreil - 04 May 2011 at 07:12
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