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The Great War

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Epidemic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epidemic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 00:25
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Brandmeister, I received many mails from players, including alliance leaders,  that they would not make peace under ANY terms, so the actual peace terms offered and accepted or rejected are not necessarily relevant to the belief of people like myself who took those people at their word and believed it was possible that they would not make peace at all.



After seeing many of their members sieged out of the game, this from very early in the war, do you honestly blame that they would be defiant and choose annihilation over humiliation? Your lies and propaganda are only working on the newbs you 'help' in gc.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Unkown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 00:25
I agree with artahm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 00:43
I can only speak for myself and TVM but I will say that my own declaration against TVM surrendering was made because we were attacked by (first) a much larger alliance and then told (directly by the GA's top leader) we had to surrender so that alliance could help fight our allies in another part of the continent. For me, it was clear we would eventually be defeated but the more noise we made and the longer we held out the better chance our allies had of ultimately winning in their own territories. It wasn't to be, but I still believe we did the right thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Unkown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 00:54
Personally I think the GA forced many players out of the game due to relentless sieges. If they had not caused so much blood shed we might still have some of the players who were seized out of the game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 01:30
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

His name was Thorgrim.  I remember his name, even though you do not.  He later went inactive, which I was sad to see.



Nope, that must of been another player you mercilessly went after. Both players did go inactive after your peaceful alliance razed at least half their cities.

Thorgrim was the only player who thieved me during the war.  So I'm not sure what you're talking about if you are claiming now it was someone else.  Or are you simply inventing players I allegedly sieged out of thin air?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mona Lisa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 01:54
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

....

After seeing many of their members sieged out of the game, this from very early in the war, do you honestly blame that they would be defiant and choose annihilation over humiliation? Your lies and propaganda are only working on the newbs you 'help' in gc.


. . . Epi having second thoughts at being a war enabler? 

Such poisoned barbs pointed our way , and from the "Merchant of Death" that supplied those very same materials we used to create such a horrible, "brutal" war machine . . .  I defy Epi to point out a single instance where I 'lied' in my retelling.  I indeed went way out of my way to explain actions and hopefully provide background where little other than hot air and vindictiveness had been tossed about otherwise.

.. so much for attempting a neutral retelling , I did in all honesty post an accurate and rational account of my views.  I did try to stay within the spirit of the OP.  If the aim of the original poster was to uncover details of the war itself,  the regurgitation of the mantra of " The GA was so evil they sieged people !"  seems a very tired and pointless avenue of discussion. 

Yes we know Epi has a deep seated hatred of the GA, and likes to spout off as to how horrible the war was. . . I think most readers get that point by now.  Beyond that, Epi has little else to add to the retelling.  He was not privy to any of the strategy used by either side, he was not involved in any of the negotiations, nor did he ever see the terms,  he has no understanding of the relationships between the leaders of the various alliances involved in the war.  He was indeed a major arms dealer.  I got my saddles from him at bulk pricing.  He can certainly comment on the impact of T2 resource prices during the war, but beyond that . . . 

I find BV's honest explanation of the reasoning behind refusing to surrender a far more useful and insightful addition to the discussion.  As one of those asking for his surrender at the time, and also one who understood why there was value to the Coalition in having a rear guard action go on, the story adds to the history of the war.  Like it or not, it also explains why fighting took place in the north and why so many cities ended up as rubble.  

I sense the thread will just devolve into little more than wagging fingers pointing and proclaiming "The great EVIL lies therein ! They be witches ! Burn them !", It is a pitty . . .   I would much prefer hearing about how people dealt with battle ...    

I am very tired of the attempt, but I will give one last war story before I close the thread and move on . .

.. a good ways into the war, and well after I had razed the largest of my targets in Ursor, I was mopping up sieging a TVM city of one of their military commanders. I had assumed that the bulk of their defensive forces had been exhausted and had cut the forces I used to defend a siege down considerably. I logged off plans well set and looking to my south plotting other moves, the moving unit map was largely green, apparently very safe....  when I next logged on, it had appeared that Armageddon had occurred, the entire northern map was awash in red TVM armies converging on my siege. It appeared that hundreds upon hundreds of individual armies had been launched, checking their movements, I noted that indeed they all had been launched with great precision, all to land at target in a very narrow window.  They had been launched from nearly every single TVM city in Ursor and Qaro from the largest city down to the very smallest of players.  By that time,  fate had pretty much rolled the dice, and I'm guessing they all knew what the final outcome was going to be, but they showed spunk and determination. They planned and pulled off the one great surprise I had of the entire war.  I suspect they did not believe they would alter the outcome of the siege I had in place, but this one attack was the their way of going down heads held high.  It was the Alamo in reverse.

In the end, I had to sit thru and watch the battle results scroll in,scores and scores of attacks landed (ranging in size from a few pikes up to a few 1k stalwarts), eventually wearing my defenders down so that I began to lose catapults . . . I feared death by a thousand cuts . . .it was enough to make my cmdrs sweat . . .  due to the favorable geography (I had many close cities for reinforcement) and the mechanics of illy combat, my siege did hold, and the city fell,  but at that point I dont think it mattered so much. They left the field of battle knowing they gave it literally their all. My opponents gained my respect for the incredibly gutsy, well timed and orchestrated attack.  ( . . . and I was thankful that they had not employed the tactic earlier in the war when their numbers could have swayed the outcome less in my favor..) ...

Now I am sure Epi will simply bend it to further show my great evil as "The most destructive Crow in the war . . ." , but such is Illy.  There will always be those forum trolls who do little else than puff and rant . . . . . I still hold out hope that the most of the readers prefer more meaty posts . . .

. . . and thus the close of my telling of the war.  Epi now has the stage to continue his rant  . . .


Edited by Mona Lisa - 25 Jan 2015 at 01:57
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Rill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 02:03
Thanks Mona, for reminding me of that episode.  I salute the valor of TVM as well as their coordination.

Well fought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 02:05
Originally posted by Consul Zynot Consul Zynot wrote:

Originally posted by Prares Prares wrote:

I've sent my even more lengthy remembrances of the war privately to Orik, but since Celtic Knights have been mentioned in this thread several times want to let you all know my view of these matters from our side (not through our RT, just my personal thoughts).

RE - we declared war against them for much the same reasons we'd fought before. Why did Ajeka declare war rather than just hit them a few times - no idea. Did he declare "we'll eliminate them" in his war speech to the alliance - yes he did, but I frankly took no notice of that as was pretty standard AC fare. I did have good conversations with Bonfyr Verboo, and then with Zynot and Nistiner and others in RE and our war was resolved in about 10 days. The war status remained there for months because that was the bargaining chip with Sir Bradly - his sole aim in discussions was to split us from our friends in BANE, NAAM and the warring Crow alliances (we did have good relations with CalcCr prior but no real connections with the others)

KP, Kumo and The Dude - vituperative responses on forum when I was putting forward our position resolved me to keep going regardless of what I thought was certain destruction of my account. At that stage we had no war allies but Ajeka was talking to all possible helpers. The H? pax in Illy was a pox on the game for me and I'm very glad that amount of wideranging power has been broken as a result of the war.
Ajeka declared war on RE because RE at the  time was a very easy target for him   he did not even bother to mail me   and when i mailed him about the causes he  refused to  respond to me and nistiner  all he did was cry later on when NC   decided to help out.

Now  i know    SB and  CK was having good peace talks, especially with TVM also who was trying to mediate peace   but then Tamaeon came into the phrase and    everyone kissed   peace good bye on that matter.

Just had to respond to that as it   involved RE.
For the record, I still have the messages exchanged with RE, including...
  • the negotiation of a ceasefire between CK and RE, immediately after uCrow declared on NC
  • your rejections of white peace with CK
  • my warnings not to add TVM players to RE 
  • our complaints after RE declared on uCrow
  • my proposal for a ceasefire between uCrow and RE
  • my promise that uCrow would not launch any sieges against RE, provided the ceasefire agreements with uCrow and CK would be upheld
  • And more...
This is one of the key reasons the war became so destructive. Early on there were alliances on your side which could not be trusted to negotiate in good faith. This definitely changed somewhere down the road, but it was really frustrating in the early stages.

"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Consul Zynot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 03:32
Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

Originally posted by Consul Zynot Consul Zynot wrote:

Originally posted by Prares Prares wrote:

I've sent my even more lengthy remembrances of the war privately to Orik, but since Celtic Knights have been mentioned in this thread several times want to let you all know my view of these matters from our side (not through our RT, just my personal thoughts).

RE - we declared war against them for much the same reasons we'd fought before. Why did Ajeka declare war rather than just hit them a few times - no idea. Did he declare "we'll eliminate them" in his war speech to the alliance - yes he did, but I frankly took no notice of that as was pretty standard AC fare. I did have good conversations with Bonfyr Verboo, and then with Zynot and Nistiner and others in RE and our war was resolved in about 10 days. The war status remained there for months because that was the bargaining chip with Sir Bradly - his sole aim in discussions was to split us from our friends in BANE, NAAM and the warring Crow alliances (we did have good relations with CalcCr prior but no real connections with the others)

KP, Kumo and The Dude - vituperative responses on forum when I was putting forward our position resolved me to keep going regardless of what I thought was certain destruction of my account. At that stage we had no war allies but Ajeka was talking to all possible helpers. The H? pax in Illy was a pox on the game for me and I'm very glad that amount of wideranging power has been broken as a result of the war.
Ajeka declared war on RE because RE at the  time was a very easy target for him   he did not even bother to mail me   and when i mailed him about the causes he  refused to  respond to me and nistiner  all he did was cry later on when NC   decided to help out.

Now  i know    SB and  CK was having good peace talks, especially with TVM also who was trying to mediate peace   but then Tamaeon came into the phrase and    everyone kissed   peace good bye on that matter.

Just had to respond to that as it   involved RE.
For the record, I still have the messages exchanged with RE, including...
  • the negotiation of a ceasefire between CK and RE, immediately after uCrow declared on NC
  • your rejections of white peace with CK
  • my warnings not to add TVM players to RE 
  • our complaints after RE declared on uCrow
  • my proposal for a ceasefire between uCrow and RE
  • my promise that uCrow would not launch any sieges against RE, provided the ceasefire agreements with uCrow and CK would be upheld
  • And more...
This is one of the key reasons the war became so destructive. Early on there were alliances on your side which could not be trusted to negotiate in good faith. This definitely changed somewhere down the road, but it was really frustrating in the early stages.


I would  love to see the mail in which Celtic Knights  and Ucrow offered NC and RE white peace,   But  i am sure it never happened thus it does not exist
Peace was going well without Ucrow  in the  fray as  soon as you joined    all you did was threaten people and it got no one anywhere.   RE  never could fully exit the war with you handling the diplomacy   it was dittobite that finally  made peace  for us and it only took   48 hrs with him.


Edited by Consul Zynot - 25 Jan 2015 at 03:39
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Epidemic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epidemic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 03:56
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Thorgrim was the only player who thieved me during the war.  So I'm not sure what you're talking about if you are claiming now it was someone else.  Or are you simply inventing players I allegedly sieged out of thin air?


Ferog Hammerhand was the Dlord players name, had only 6 or 7 cities during the war. He no longer plays after being attacked by your group.
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