Play Now Login Create Account
illyriad
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The Great War
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

The Great War

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 20212223>
Author
 Rating: Topic Rating: 1 Votes, Average 5.00  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Epidemic View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster
Avatar

Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epidemic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 04:10
Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:

. . . Epi having second thoughts at being a war enabler? 


I was never an enabler, if I didn't sell supplies someone else would of.

Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:


I defy Epi to point out a single instance where I 'lied' in my retelling. 


I don't think I called you a liar. I'm sure I thanked you for be honest in admitting you were ruthless for bringing Evony style warfare to Illy.

Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:


Yes we know Epi has a deep seated hatred of the GA,


Hate is a strong word. I don't like how some have tried rewriting history.

Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:


Epi now has the stage to continue his rant  . . .


Epi does not rant.

Originally posted by Mona Lisa Mona Lisa wrote:



"Merchant of Death" 



I would be extremely honored if someone were to present me with that medal!
Back to Top
Thorgrim View Drop Down
Greenhorn
Greenhorn
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thorgrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 16:16
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

His name was Thorgrim.  I remember his name, even though you do not.  He later went inactive, which I was sad to see.



Nope, that must of been another player you mercilessly went after. Both players did go inactive after your peaceful alliance razed at least half their cities.

Thorgrim was the only player who thieved me during the war.  So I'm not sure what you're talking about if you are claiming now it was someone else.  Or are you simply inventing players I allegedly sieged out of thin air?

In case somebody wants to put this at my tiny Dwarf feet:

This was not me.
Back to Top
Rill View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar
Player Council - Geographer

Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 20:15
It was not.  Different player.  Had a last name.
Back to Top
Thorgrim View Drop Down
Greenhorn
Greenhorn
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thorgrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 20:31
I started as Thorgrim Grudgebearer. 

It's a name from the Warhammer universe, so probably not uncommon, considering the number of cities named Karaz-A-Karak on the map:




Back to Top
Angrim View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Location: Laoshin
Status: Offline
Points: 1169
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2015 at 23:45
Originally posted by Artahm Artahm wrote:

Adding on what Angrim said, let's not forget the absolute BS justification the Grand Alliance used here: "They are refusing to surrender to our terms, so we can do nothing else [emphasis mine] than razing them back to the newbie ring". There are always alternatives, if involved parties are willing to see them.

And in what way is this better than giving up two cities?
...
There is no justification for what some GA-alliances did in the last war.
hmmm.

the no-more-cities policy was no doubt based on EE's and others' experiences at the end of the Consone war, wherein H? agreed to peace on condition that additional cities were razed after hostilities ceased. many players, including uninvolved ones (myself included) thought this very harsh. it has occurred to me since that this is probably another bit of culture clash between two play styles. casual builders will look on this as the ultimate penalty, since all research (potentially three years of investment) is destroyed; some did and left the game. at the opposite end of the play spectrum are military prestigers, who research only what they expect to use, spend relatively freely to build, and often capture rather than settle. one's play style can have a profound effect on what one views as reasonable, a fact that neither side seems to have appreciated yet.

i feel confident that vCrow et al. did, in fact, feel that the no-more-cities policy was a merciful gesture. in the end, though, an arbitrary, secret parole policy is still arbitrary and secret, and likely to be used as a tool to work out various personal agendas by those left in charge of it--no matter the currency.
Back to Top
HATHALDIR View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jul 2011
Location: Adelaide
Status: Offline
Points: 380
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HATHALDIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 03:11
Page 22 to finally rate a mention from Angrim!! Please remember that all of his conclusions are based on his summation of the facts as he sees them. That does not make them invalid, but highly questionable as Angrim does not believe in the warring part of the game. ( but his is a warrior in the forums!)
As someone who emraces the peaceful side of the game (and we need these players too!) and not privvy to our skype chats, many of these one on one, his conclusions will be dubious as they do not include all the facts.

There's worse blokes than me!!
Back to Top
Consul Zynot View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith
Avatar

Joined: 08 Aug 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 110
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Consul Zynot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 09:30
Hug
Back to Top
Tamaeon View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith
Avatar

Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Location: Centrum
Status: Offline
Points: 152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tamaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 15:25
Originally posted by Consul Zynot Consul Zynot wrote:

Originally posted by Tamaeon Tamaeon wrote:

Originally posted by Consul Zynot Consul Zynot wrote:

Originally posted by Prares Prares wrote:

I've sent my even more lengthy remembrances of the war privately to Orik, but since Celtic Knights have been mentioned in this thread several times want to let you all know my view of these matters from our side (not through our RT, just my personal thoughts).

RE - we declared war against them for much the same reasons we'd fought before. Why did Ajeka declare war rather than just hit them a few times - no idea. Did he declare "we'll eliminate them" in his war speech to the alliance - yes he did, but I frankly took no notice of that as was pretty standard AC fare. I did have good conversations with Bonfyr Verboo, and then with Zynot and Nistiner and others in RE and our war was resolved in about 10 days. The war status remained there for months because that was the bargaining chip with Sir Bradly - his sole aim in discussions was to split us from our friends in BANE, NAAM and the warring Crow alliances (we did have good relations with CalcCr prior but no real connections with the others)

KP, Kumo and The Dude - vituperative responses on forum when I was putting forward our position resolved me to keep going regardless of what I thought was certain destruction of my account. At that stage we had no war allies but Ajeka was talking to all possible helpers. The H? pax in Illy was a pox on the game for me and I'm very glad that amount of wideranging power has been broken as a result of the war.
Ajeka declared war on RE because RE at the  time was a very easy target for him   he did not even bother to mail me   and when i mailed him about the causes he  refused to  respond to me and nistiner  all he did was cry later on when NC   decided to help out.

Now  i know    SB and  CK was having good peace talks, especially with TVM also who was trying to mediate peace   but then Tamaeon came into the phrase and    everyone kissed   peace good bye on that matter.

Just had to respond to that as it   involved RE.
For the record, I still have the messages exchanged with RE, including...
  • the negotiation of a ceasefire between CK and RE, immediately after uCrow declared on NC
  • your rejections of white peace with CK
  • my warnings not to add TVM players to RE 
  • our complaints after RE declared on uCrow
  • my proposal for a ceasefire between uCrow and RE
  • my promise that uCrow would not launch any sieges against RE, provided the ceasefire agreements with uCrow and CK would be upheld
  • And more...
This is one of the key reasons the war became so destructive. Early on there were alliances on your side which could not be trusted to negotiate in good faith. This definitely changed somewhere down the road, but it was really frustrating in the early stages.

I would  love to see the mail in which Celtic Knights  and Ucrow offered NC and RE white peace,   But  i am sure it never happened thus it does not exist
You're right, it does not exist... because white peace was offered before RE declared on uCrow. I've sent you an igm of my discussion with Nistiner.

Originally posted by Consul Zynot Consul Zynot wrote:

Peace was going well without Ucrow  in the  fray as  soon as you joined    all you did was threaten people and it got no one anywhere.
Just to highlight the hassle of negotiating with RE at the time, I'll post a timeline below...

Originally posted by Consul Zynot Consul Zynot wrote:

RE  never could fully exit the war with you handling the diplomacy   it was dittobite that finally  made peace  for us and it only took   48 hrs with him.
True, it was Dittobite who secured peace in the end. Though the efforts of uCrow, CK and NAAM cannot be ignored. Achieving peace with RE was probably the most difficult negotiation in illyriad history. Here's some of the highlights starting from October 14th. (note that before this, uCrow had negotiated a ceasefire and an offer of white peace for RE)

14th of October - uCrow warns RE (3rd time) to immediately remove all TVM members from their ranks, warning that failure to comply will lead to an imminent escalation of the war.
15th of October - RE reject white peace. Nistiner replies stating that RE will not sign peace with CK, until CK sign peace with NC. He was also glad to point out that NC would siege uCrow into submission.
17th of October - EE declares war on TVM. All players visiting in RE return home.
18th of October - CK and uCrow start talks for new surrender terms, upon RE's renewed interest in peace.

We eventually settled on:

- RE are to move all cities within 15 squares of CK cities.
- uCrow and CK will provide all the resources needed for RE to build up towns and exodus.
- After exodus, uCrow and CK will provide all the resources to help RE rebuild towns.
- RE agree not to settle within 15 squares of CK cities.
- RE promise to never attempt to corrupt any CK members again.

These terms were initially rejected, uCrow and CK return to the drawing table...
 
30th of October - RE declares war on uCrow and NAAM.
30th of October - Myself and Nistiner exchange various messages regarding the war declaration.
30th of October - uCrow promises RE that no sieges or attacks will be sent to their cities.
30th of October - Nistiner sends various attacks to my cities.
30th of October - Peace talks break down. uCrow notifies RE that we refuse to continue peace talks while RE armies march towards our cities.

1st of November - Nistiner contacts me again to ask for peace, I remind him that uCrow will not negotiate while we have inbound attacks.
3rd of November - Nistiners attacks prove to be feints.

4th of November - Myself and Janosch discuss terms for RE, she agrees to take the lead in negotiations.
8th of November - Peace talks break down. Zynot attacks kErru, a member of HEAT (Non-Aligned-Movement Confederation)
9th of November - I notify Janosch that given the recent ceasefire violations by RE, I no longer wish to waste my time with peace negotiations. We agree that a month-long ceasefire is the only way forward.

29th of december - Dittobite and myself exchange messages regarding RE's surrender terms
4th of January - Prares and myself exchange messages regarding Ajeka's (CK leader at the time) absence, and the possibilities for peace with RE.
8th of January - uCrow posts on the forum declaring peace with RE. link below...


The whole debacle took 3 months to resolve. It should be noted that there were more incidents like ceasefire violations. But despite everything, RE faired pretty well in the war and peace was achieved with virtually no destruction or punitive terms.

edit: corrected spelling


Edited by Tamaeon - 26 Jan 2015 at 16:33
"How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned."
Back to Top
Angrim View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Location: Laoshin
Status: Offline
Points: 1169
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 17:58
Originally posted by HATHALDIR HATHALDIR wrote:

Angrim does not believe in the warring part of the game.
don't i?

Originally posted by HATHALDIR HATHALDIR wrote:

As someone who emraces the peaceful side of the game (and we need these players too!) and not privvy to our skype chats, many of these one on one, his conclusions will be dubious as they do not include all the facts.
very true. the policy might have been intended as a sort of "to the pain" measure, i suppose, so if you say it wasn't intended as a mercy, you would know better than i.
Back to Top
abstractdream View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Location: Oarnamly
Status: Offline
Points: 1841
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2015 at 00:43
Originally posted by Tamaeaon Tamaeaon wrote:

14th of October - uCrow warns RE (3rd time) to immediately remove all TVM members from their ranks, warning that failure to comply will lead to an imminent escalation of the war.

I have a couple of questions about this.

1. Why was our presence a point of contention? There were maybe 3 accounts that went over (before uCrow got involved and maybe more accounts went over, but I don't have the records available to tell me) and they never once sent armies or diplomats at any accounts. The entire time, Nalleen was doing her best to teach RE members how to defend themselves, which they clearly had no idea of how to do. She told them that if there were any offensive action from RE, she and the rest of our members would leave and they would lose all support from us. I was in communication with Prares and disclosed all of the above to him. As far as I know, RE followed these instructions and not once launched any type of offensive action against XckX.

TVM members never once did anything that could be construed as offensive. In the alliance, we did nothing to indicate we were taking an offensive role. In RE, our members never did anything to indicate that. Prares knew about all of this.

2. Why was TVM not contacted? There was never a message to me or any other member that I am aware of from you or any other uCrow member or anyone at all, including RE stating that our presence in RE was an issue of contention. We were never asked by RE or anyone to leave RE. The first I heard of it was AFTER our guys came home.

Edited by abstractdream - 27 Jan 2015 at 00:46
Bonfyr Verboo
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 20212223>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.