Play Now Login Create Account
illyriad
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Terrain testing results
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedTerrain testing results

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
Author
KillerPoodle View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Terrain testing results
    Posted: 27 Aug 2010 at 16:02

After some debate in Global about the impact of terrain, Zangi and I decided to do some controlled tests.

We agreed to use 100 basic dwarf bowmen (99 Slingers plus unbonused commander) vs 20 Human cavalry (19 + unbonused commander).

This gives a nice comparison because 20 cavalry have an attack strength of 1300 (65*20)  and Slingers have a defence against cavalry of 13 so the armies are equal when the cavalry are attacking the slingers.

First test was on a mountain square type "Lonely Peak":

Quote
Sent By:    System
Received By:    KillerPoodle
Sent:    27AUG10 06:09
Subject:    Failed attack against Zangi's forces at Square -139|-62 by KillerPoodle's forces from Poodleopolis

Two opposing forces clash against each other.

Swordsmen, and especially cavalry, find attacking into very mountainous terrain difficult - although ranged units can excel.

Narrow passes and gulleys hinder any mounted units' ability to defend adequately. Nimble spear units have no such worries here, and defending bowmen are able to use their height advantage to maximum effect.
Attackers:    Unit:    Quantity:    Casualties:    Survivors:
Commander: cav    Knight    1    Damaged for 100, 0 health remains.
Troops:    Knights    19    19    0

Despite your troops' defeat, word reaches you concerning the defenders' forces in this battle.

Defenders:    Unit:    Quantity:    Casualties:    Survivors:
Commander: Pebbles    Slinger    1    Damaged for 53, 47 health remains.
Troops:    Slingers    99    53    46


As you can see - rather than this being a close fight the terrain gave a significant advantage to the bows.

Edited by KillerPoodle - 27 Aug 2010 at 16:03
Back to Top
KillerPoodle View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2010 at 16:19
I'd love for everyone to add to this - I suggest you try to keep the armies involved as simple as possible and refer to this for stats to decide numbers:

http://uk1.illyriad.co.uk/view_all_units.asp?unit=0
Back to Top
KillerPoodle View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2010 at 16:43
Some math:

a = cav atk terrain modifier for mountains
b = bow defence terrain mod for mountains

My cavalry killed 53 out of 99 troops (and some percentage of the commander) so I'm going to assume our relative strengths were 53/99 = .535

My strength was 1300*a  and Zangi's was 1300*b thus:

1300a/1300b = 0.535  and;
a/b = 0.535

So, for example that could give values for a and b as follows:

1.0 and 1.869  or
0.8 and 1.49  (e.g. a 20% penalty to cav atk and a 50% bonus to bow defence) or
0.6 and 1.12
etc...

There are an infinite number of possible values from this one equation - we would need more results to start narrowing down the actual values.
Back to Top
KillerPoodle View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2010 at 04:50
Quote
Sent By:    System
Received By:    KillerPoodle
Sent:    28AUG10 03:47
Subject:    Victorious battle against Zangi's forces at Square -25|-43 by KillerPoodle's forces from Poodleopolis
Two opposing forces clash against each other.

Cavalry comes into its own when able to strike hostile forces at will, and from unexpected directions - and nowhere is this more feasible than on open plains. Lightly armoured spear units, however, prefer terrain where there's some cover available.

Fighting defensively on open plains, cavalry draws strength from the ability to form and reform their lines of engagement depending on the direction of battle, and it is here where cavalry excels.
Attackers:    Unit:    Quantity:    Casualties:    Survivors:
Commander: cav    Knight    1    Damaged for 76, 24 health remains.
Troops:    Knights    19    14    5

Defenders:    Unit:    Quantity:    Casualties:    Survivors:
Commander: Rocky    Slinger    1    Damaged for 100, 0 health remains.
Troops:    Slingers    99    99    0



Back to Top
sityviper View Drop Down
Greenhorn
Greenhorn
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 81
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2010 at 17:20
you have to also figue on who is defending, defence has the bonus
§.i.†.Ą.V.‡.¶.€.® 3
Back to Top
Mandarins31 View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 418
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2010 at 23:52
Hi, you may consider that on the same square and for the same unit, def and attack bonus could be different.

for exemple if on lonely peaks bows have +50% def, maybe they dont have +50% attck but a diferent %age of bonus


Edited by Mandarins31 - 28 Aug 2010 at 23:53
Back to Top
Shrapnel View Drop Down
Wordsmith
Wordsmith
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 180
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 01:42
Two opposing forces clash against each other.

Cavalry comes into its own when able to strike hostile forces at will, and from unexpected directions - and nowhere is this more feasible than on open plains. Lightly armoured spear units, however, prefer terrain where there's some cover available.

Fighting defensively on open plains, cavalry draws strength from the ability to form and reform their lines of engagement depending on the direction of battle, and it is here where cavalry excels.

Attackers:Unit:Quantity:Casualties:Survivors:
Commander: AxerAxman1Damaged for 84, 16 health remains.
Troops:Axmen39327

Defenders:Unit:Quantity:Casualties:Survivors:
Commander: Sacrificial LambKobold Cohort1Damaged for 100, 0 health remains.
Troops:Kobold Cohorts89890

In this experiment, infantry went against spear men.  The attack value of the infantry equals the defense value of the spear men.  The battle happened on the plains.  These results are surprising to me.  If we assume there is a random element, then I'm thinking neither side had a bonus or penalty thus resulting in the 7 surviving axe men.  Either there is a random element and no modifiers, or no random element and just a minor penalty to the spear men?  I really thought the axe men would have a lot more survivors.
Back to Top
Mandarins31 View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 418
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 02:40
here infantry has a non negligable advantage on spearmen. they have 15-20% of survivors (7/39*100) while all the speamen are dead. so infantry has a medium advantage when attacking spearmen on plains.
Back to Top
KillerPoodle View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1853
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 03:37
" Lightly armoured spear units, however, prefer terrain where there's some cover available."

Maybe spears have a penalty on plains where there is no cover?

BTW - I think you can get a more accurate picture when small numbers of troops are involved by looking at the damage to the commander (84% in this case - so 16% remaining).


Edited by KillerPoodle - 29 Aug 2010 at 03:38
Back to Top
Mandarins31 View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 418
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 03:52
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:





So, for example that could give values for a and b as follows:

1.0 and 1.869  or
0.8 and 1.49  (e.g. a 20% penalty to cav atk and a 50% bonus to bow defence) or
0.6 and 1.12
etc...

There are an infinite number of possible values from this one equation - we would need more results to start narrowing down the actual values.




for me the only way to know the %age is first of all to find a square on which one an unit is not affected... so +0% bonus on attack or defense : so we could have the (Power)*1.0 and find the %age value of the other units on this square.

i think about plains and swordmen, its easy to know the bonus of every units on it because swordmen are unaffected:

Hills also benefit ranged units and spearmen to a lesser extent, and still penalise cavalry, but also to a lesser extent.  Swordsmen are largely unaffected by hilly terrain.

Plains provide the opportunity for cavalry to shine - their ability to maneuver makes them the masters of open flat space.  Lightly armoured spearmen dislike the open terrain of plains, where they are easier targets for cavalry and archers.

Edit: swordmen largely unaffected on hill (they are affected on mountains). they dont talk about them on plains. we can strongly suppose that swordmen are totally unaffected on plains




It will be much difficult on hills, forests, and mountains because we dont have any reference: every unit seems to be affected by the type of these grounds




-Exemple on plains with the previous report (swordmen attack spearmen):

they both have a power of 1000 (for exemple)
a=%bonus on swordmen attck
b=%bonus on spearmen def

39-7= 32
32/39= 0.821

1000*b/1000*a=0.821

b/a=0.821

swordmen unaffected => a=1.0

b=0.821a
b=0.821 => 17.9% penalty on spearmen def Smile

(but because of the weight of the army, the luck etc... its better to say a penalty between -15% and -20%)






Edited by Mandarins31 - 29 Aug 2010 at 04:20
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.