Play Now Login Create Account
illyriad
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Stagnant
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Stagnant

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Ruarc View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 04 Dec 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ruarc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 03:05
Originally posted by Malek Malek wrote:

Given how you are saying that only 7 foods are the answer, and this is the problem I have with half wits, you dont consider the alternatives its 7 food or nothing.
 
Nonsense. 5 and 6 food cities are strong alternatives for people who know exactly why they're forgoing high sustainable population. They don't make any sense to recommend to most new players. 
 
I don't know if you're confusing the fact that they're a preferred recommendation to new folk with the idea that 5 and 6 food tiles are inferior to 7 food tiles (which simply isn't the case) or what, but you are being unnecessarily combative over what's a pretty simple issue.
Back to Top
Malek View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 04:16
Originally posted by Ruarc Ruarc wrote:

 

I don't know if you're confusing the fact that they're a preferred recommendation to new folk with the idea that 5 and 6 food tiles are inferior to 7 food tiles (which simply isn't the case) or what, but you are being unnecessarily combative over what's a pretty simple issue.

Its only preferred because the halfwit 7 food brigade all shout it out. What is pretty simple is to find out early on what they want to do and help tailor there account to their gameplay style. There is no right answer to 5,6,7 foods but point blank saying settle 7 foods because it is recommended is just plain idiotic. That recommendation still happens all the time, I have tested it in GC a few times over the years to see if the responses have changed and they have not and when asked why, there is not much real answer. 

The fact that you argued my pros and cons to 5,6,7 foods illustrates your complete lack of understanding of the game and its mechanics, and you should take your own advice and learn more about it before spouting off about things you clearly do not comprehend. 
Back to Top
Ruarc View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 04 Dec 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ruarc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 09:39
Originally posted by Malek Malek wrote:

There is no right answer to 5,6,7 foods but point blank saying settle 7 foods because it is recommended is just plain idiotic. That recommendation still happens all the time... and they have not and when asked why, there is not much real answer. 

The fact that you argued my pros and cons to 5,6,7 foods illustrates your complete lack of understanding of the game and its mechanics 
 
The hostility in your responses is baffling.
 
I never disputed the pros and cons you outlined for 5, 6 or 7 food tiles. I pointed out how 7 food tile gives more flexibility for players because it's not nearly as damaging to settle 7 food tiles and then desire a pure military account, compared to settling 5 food tiles and then desire high pop. Then I agreed with you that learning the game takes time. I built on that to point out that new players will not be in a position to make an informed choice that early into the game. Equally clearly they don't know what they want to do in the long-term, otherwise they wouldn't even be asking the question. Which all boils down to why the 7 food spot is the preferred option for them.

So you have your answer as to why 7 food is preferred. Its benefits are more applicable to the vast majority of players, and if they desire a different route later it isn't as damaging as settling 5/6 food and deciding to prioritize growth.
Back to Top
Malek View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 11:07
Originally posted by Ruarc Ruarc wrote:

Yeah, I don't agree with you at all He-Man - recommending a 5 food town to a new player seems unnecessarily restrictive and implies a decision has already been made about how they want to specialize. 

 

Said dispute. ^

That is where you point blank got it all wrong.  You took what I said and went clear off on a tangent explaining your rhetoric and enforcing your "recommended" play style, where peroxis was clearly  not looking for the recommended playstyle see below for his quote. 

Originally posted by Peroxis Peroxis wrote:

...but ideally a town or an army should have to worry to a closer to equal degree about each surrounding tile. Everything ideally should have a counter, as it is there are no counters to units on a mountain or any other type of terrain.

At the moment I am still hopeful for a few ideas to go against the grain.


It appears your approach to reading seems to reflect your recommended play style and understanding of mechanics, limited. When you learn more, come talk to me then. 
Back to Top
Ruarc View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster


Joined: 04 Dec 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ruarc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 12:06
The 5 and 6 food settlement spots you spoke about are grand. As I said, I have no disagreement with them or their advantages. 
 
There is an issue discussing those alternative spots without also highlighting the difficulties settlement on those squares could pose further down the line. That's where my 'tangent' started - with the problems someone might encounter if they followed advice to settle on 5 or 6 food.
Back to Top
Ten Kulch View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior


Joined: 20 Jan 2017
Location: Fellandire
Status: Offline
Points: 369
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2017 at 15:01
N00bs get generic recommendations when they ask generic questions with no context. "What city should I build?" That will always get the 7-food answer from the GC muggles. Deservedly so. Asking a question like "How do I construct an Iceheart mining centre?" or "How do I build a good tournament account?" will garner much more specific and relevant answers.

Separately, the 7-food answer is also fairly useless. Building a 7-food account to chase 25 cities is a lot different than building several 7-food cities to slowly build large tournament armies. The map locations, sov opportunities, and internal structures will be totally different. There is zero virtue to blindly recommending a 7-food location, which is exactly what GC'ers will do reflexively. Presenting 7-food as some kind of safe default is misleading, because not all 7-food builds can fulfill all player purposes for larger cities.

While surround-by-plains is a decent recommendation, it is also mostly useless without the proper context. If you are not near to allies who have significant cavalry reserves that are dedicated to your rescue, then your adjacent tiles are utterly irrelevant. Lately people have taken to presenting surround-by-plains as some kind of defensive silver bullet, and it's simply not.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
Back to Top
Angrim View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Location: Laoshin
Status: Offline
Points: 1169
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 02:38
hmmm. a thoughtful (if hostile) discussion on the forum. feels like old times.

as Ten Kulch notes, in the absence of specifics, all responses to "what should i build" are somewhat irrelevant, and what one gets is generally a recommendation based on the play style of the advisor. in my experience, that is no less true among the pvp'ers than it is among the "muggles". i'm not sure players ought to be excoriated for that. newbs may as well be asking "what could i build?", as players with no goals just want some direction. they will learn about the game or not (and it won't have much to do with what they build), perhaps decide they've made a false start, and adjust as they develop their own objectives. i don't think we're asking players to sit out their first 4-12 weeks until they learn enough about the game to weigh their options.
Back to Top
Ten Kulch View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior


Joined: 20 Jan 2017
Location: Fellandire
Status: Offline
Points: 369
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017 at 03:00
Angrim, I don't know any competent military players who present city construction as black and white. When asked, most will give a succinct summary of the advantages of 5 vs 7. That is in contrast to many non-PvP gamers, who will doggedly push 7-food as the only viable option to new players.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
Back to Top
Angrim View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2011
Location: Laoshin
Status: Offline
Points: 1169
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2017 at 01:09
i couldn't speak to proportions, but i have been present more than once when, in their haste to heap scorn on the gc advice being offered, pvp'ers have been just as strident and unhelpful when pushing their own priorities. i'm not in gc as much as i was, but if i see it again i'll post it to you.

i have no doubt that the pvp community is, on the whole, better conversant with the reasons for various strategies than are the builders or the social players...by necessity. that depth of knowledge isn't always on display in their interactions.
Back to Top
Ten Kulch View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior


Joined: 20 Jan 2017
Location: Fellandire
Status: Offline
Points: 369
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2017 at 02:13
A strident tone can be part of the show.

I did qualify my statement with "competent". Many PvP players follow build recipes, just like many social players. I suppose that competent social players would also present the 5 vs 7 debate in terms of tradeoffs (particularly because I would not regard them as reasonably competent if they did not).
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.