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Sindicate v. Assorted Elgea based Alliances

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Tink XX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 16:08
Tensmoor, that's true - trust me, I appreciate the challenges of this kind of data gathering. In the best of all worlds, the devs would provide us with a siege data API that would provide a daily snapshot of all sieges, including the ones broken within the past 24 hours, and show info such as how long the siege is lasting, how many total troops are lost (perhaps broken out by defenders/attackers), and whether it concluded in a raze, capture, or was broken.

Short of that and collecting data from users, here's what might work. If you log in and look at the siege stats page once a day it's not very accurate since many sieges get broken in under 24 hours so you might miss quite a few. If you get the snapshot 2x a day, that increases the accuracy a lot. Most sieges last at least 6 hours, and if it's under 6-10 hours it was a worthless siege to begin with, so that puts the floor on how many snapshots you need.

You can pretty easily scrape the siege page with JS (and I believe that's not very different from Illytools in terms of fair use since you're still logged into the game) and put it in a table immediately. Throw in a bit of math and you get approximate siege duration. We're talking about maybe 5-10 sieges per week total. If you put the results of your data gathering in a forum thread, encourage players volunteer raze reports or final break reports. If no raze report was provided, assume the siege was broken.


Edited by Tink XX - 31 Jan 2018 at 16:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 16:23
Another idea:
you can use daily snapshots of attack and defense stats to identify key players and make weekly graphs combining the info from each day. If you look at that info day to day it's too atomic to get the picture, but over the course of time it adds up to something, especially if you have side by side comparisons of all the participating alliances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 17:19
Gathering the data from any of the Illy pages is fairly straightforward - a lot of the data gathered by DurcTools comes from JS scripts that do exactly that. If I add a simple button to the page that triggers the collection of the data then all the requirements of the rules for third-party tools are met.

Rather than storing the data on the users device as I do with DurcTools I think this is a situation where a centralised database on my server would be a better solution. I can produce a page where anyone can interrogate the database to get a history of sieges by such things as participating alliances, dates, regions etc.

The code to access the data will be much harder to produce than the code to capture/submit the data in the first place but I'll start looking at it over the next few days and rather than make this a part of DurcTools I'll create it as a completely standalone user-script/tool that does nothing else but gather and submit the data. If nobody submits it then they have no justification for argument.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 17:35
Tens, depending on what sort of server you have and what sort of code you want to produce I could help you with the access code, if you post a repository of your server on Github. I can manage most languages (Python, Ruby, JS, Go, C#, etc.), just don't want to do something like Perl. I log in often enough to get some of the siege stats snapshots reliably. Perhaps it could be as simple as have a solid system of aggregating the data and then, instead of crafting a user interface, just return a simple data dump in form of a page of xml or a csv file at one API endpoint. CSV would work great, then it can be inserted into Google Docs and displayed to the public. Or even better yet, piped into a Google sheet directly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 17:37
Worth noting: the /news and /news24 commands in GC will give you a log of all system siege notices for that day and 24 hour window, respectively. That command also gives you the name of the attacking city, per the siege notice (which is missing on the siege stats page). With the towns and map files, you should be able to identify which sieges were removed with the city staying in place. You can also see which cities were removed, although it will be unclear which ones were destroyed or used exodus, since both results will cause a 1 city drop on that player's town list and growth chart. It's probably sufficient just to note the missing city and let the participants clarify.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 17:46
Originally posted by Tink XX Tink XX wrote:

Another idea:
you can use daily snapshots of attack and defense stats to identify key players and make weekly graphs combining the info from each day. If you look at that info day to day it's too atomic to get the picture, but over the course of time it adds up to something, especially if you have side by side comparisons of all the participating alliances.


I'm working on a USB based system that allows the user to compile data from the player, town and alliance data files over a period of time (I have the files going back to April 2016). The system will work by showing changes in the data so in theory you could rebuild a history of a player (name, alliance including rank, town details such as locations and populations) for as long as you have the data for. This is probably already available to those alliances with members who can do the coding but I'm trying to come up with something that can be used by everyone regardless of their coding ability. I don't have a server powerful enough to do it when multiple people will be submitting queries at the same time so came up with a system based on a USB stick with an Apache Web Server on it that the user simply plugs into their computer and away they go - no strain on my server.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 17:59
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

Worth noting: the /news and /news24 commands in GC will give you a log of all system siege notices for that day and 24 hour window, respectively. That command also gives you the name of the attacking city, per the siege notice (which is missing on the siege stats page). With the towns and map files, you should be able to identify which sieges were removed with the city staying in place. You can also see which cities were removed, although it will be unclear which ones were destroyed or used exodus, since both results will cause a 1 city drop on that player's town list and growth chart. It's probably sufficient just to note the missing city and let the participants clarify.
Those two commands could solve a few problems. I'll have to wait an hour to see. You got any other 'secret' commands hidden away Tongue

Originally posted by Tink XX Tink XX wrote:

Tens, depending on what sort of server you have and what sort of code you want to produce I could help you with the access code, if you post a repository of your server on Github. I can manage most languages (Python, Ruby, JS, Go, C#, etc.), just don't want to do something like Perl. I log in often enough to get some of the siege stats snapshots reliably. Perhaps it could be as simple as have a solid system of aggregating the data and then, instead of crafting a user interface, just return a simple data dump in form of a page of xml or a csv file at one API endpoint. CSV would work great, then it can be inserted into Google Docs and displayed to the public. Or even better yet, piped into a Google sheet directly.
I'm on a shared server that's pretty crippled in what it can do and mostly I work in PHP as that's the only language I can consistently get to work on it (bargain basement hosting has its drawbacks). With the two GC commands that Ten Kulch mentioned I may be able to come up with something that makes it a lot easier. Getting the database to do a dump of the data in CSV format is fairly simple and I could schedule that as a CRON job with the results being available to everyone to download - more thinking required.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mafro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 19:49
Love the ideas. I can help with database design and/or coding, if needed. I've got experience with MySQL, Postgres, MSSQL, etc.

Regarding the suggestion that I do other stuff...I do what I do because it takes 5 minutes and requires no thinking. Even then there are some days when I don't find those 5 minutes and it doesn't get done. While I understand the limits of the data I'm posting, I do think it's useful, especially when viewed over time, and I'm not aware of a better method that can be done with the amount of time I'm willing to devote to it. If someone knows a better method and is willing to put their own time into making it happen, I'm all for it. :)

All that said, honestly, this sort of information should be provided by the game itself. I think it's silly that siege results aren't made public. I also think battle reports - or some watered down version of them - should be made public. It would make the game more enjoyable for more players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 22:24
I may well send you some details of the info for the database Mafro - see if you can come up with a better layout/structure for it than I can.

The pages I provide on player movements are generated automatically from the datafiles by a php script that is automatically run by the server each day. If I had to do it manually then like you there would be days when it didn't happen.

That is going to be the problem with gathering the data on the sieges - it will really need to be gathered at least once a day to be able to provide any real data over time and I cannot guarantee I will be logging in each day.

If the devs made a siege datafile available (targetPlayerId, targetTownId, sourcePlayerId, sourceTownId, startDateTime, endDateTime, outcomeCode) the job would be very simple. The file could simply cover a 24 hour period so wouldn't be large and it could be imported straight into spreadsheets. The only part of the data that isn't very readily available to everyone is the outcome code (raze, capture, broken, abandoned).

As to it making the game more enjoyable - I'm not a military player so it wouldn't for me but at the same time this is supposed to be a game where there are many different possible styles of play and military is indeed one of those.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mafro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 06:03
Day 58. Over the last 5 days...:

For the GA
  • Aesir lost 1 member, 12 towns, and 450k pop, and has gained 2m Attack and 430k Defense
  • Unbow has lost 1 member, 8 towns, and 100k pop, and has gained 33k Attack
  • EE has lost 3 towns and 266k pop, and has gained 115k Attack and 60k Defense
  • mCrow had gained 1 member, 6 towns and 60k pop, and has gained 710k Att and 15k Def
  • Storm has lost 1 town and 16k pop, and has gained 85k Attack and 200k Defense
  • Hell has lost 5 towns and 140k pop, and gained 305k Attack and 120k Defense
  • HoMa has lost 1 member, 11 towns, and 42k pop
  • Bane has gained 1 town and 3k pop
  • SAINT has gained 1 member, 13 towns, and 45k pop
  • Overall the GA has lost 1 member, 20 towns, and 920k pop, gaining 3,261k Att and 823k Def
For the SINdicate
  • Loki has gained 1 town, 26k pop, 826k Attack, and 33k Defense
  • SIN has lost 1 member, 9 towns, 142k pop, and gained 240k Attack and 218k Defense
  • TA2IN has lost 1 town, gained 4k pop, and gained 17k Attack and 6k Defense
  • 300 has gained 2 towns, 6k pop, 28k Attack, and 712k Defense
  • Overall the SINdicate has lost 1 member, 7 towns, 106k pop, and gained 1.11m Attack and 969k Defense
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