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Hucbold View Drop Down
Wordsmith
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Joined: 20 Nov 2015
Location: Meilla
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hucbold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 20:25
Originally posted by Zenorra Zenorra wrote:

@Dessembrae

There was a lot of communication with the Aesir player as well as Hucbold prior to any action being taken. 

Grom was saying that we have been communicating with all yellow players within Mal Motsha and we are working with them on their move. There is a lot of things going on that doesn't involve sieging, and that does not show up in the Herald. You should not try to make observations that you know nothing about.

Zenorra, you're a psycho. We agreed to move the player involved although there was no reason we had to and then you attacked him before he could do so. He had been there for years, was on agreeable terms with his neighbours, ws no threat to anybody and you're now complaining that he's attacking you back. It is illogical, unreasonable and will remain a bone of contention between us. 
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Ten Kulch View Drop Down
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Joined: 20 Jan 2017
Location: Fellandire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 21:09
Zenorra, Grom, and Lord Zeal have represented themselves well on these forums. I find it hard to believe a story where all three of them engage in "psycho" behavior unprovoked.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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The Reaper View Drop Down
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Joined: 03 Jun 2015
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Reaper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 21:55
The game mechanics are not going to change to suit your carebear needs. Now. Go suck it up butter cup.
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Zenorra View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zenorra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 22:11
I have the mails that prove he refused to move from Mal Motsha, and that he had no idea you (Hucbold) volunteered him to move.

I was not complaining about his attacks, he can't hurt us with his pathetic little armies. He makes good practice and training for my members. 

"Bone of contention"?! Oh, woe is me.

"Psycho"?! Meh, okay. I've been called worse.
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lordzeal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lordzeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2017 at 01:45
Psycho? I like being Psycho it's kinda fun. We send mails asking people to move, even offer to help them if they agreed but when someone refuses we will act and act we did.
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Grom View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Sep 2017
Location: Mal Motsha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2017 at 10:25
I don't feel the need to defend every single operation conducted inside MM. But, since the idea is being presented that we actively chose to target a player already embroiled in a war, it seems prudent to make an exception in this case. 

As already stated, Tcol has approached all non-confederated players inside MM with the request to relocate to another location. There are typically three kinds of responses. 

1. The player does not read IGMs at all and no dialogue can be opened. They are removed.
2. The player expresses regret but a willingness to comply. A timetable and support are arranged. 
3. The player outright refuses to move or becomes hostile. Removed with extreme prejudice.

By far the majority of all players contacted fall in category 2. The specific case with the Aesir member in question was not so easily defined. Aesir leadership (Hucbold) promptly agreed to remove the cities. So promptly in fact that he forgot to consult the player to whom they belonged. The player was naturally frustrated and at first refused to move, then started parallel negotiations to those conducted (and finished) with his leadership. 

We were patient and well-willing in our dealings with this Aesir member, who offered all sorts of solutions. After a while, these negotiations, being devoid of any practical application, got the distinct feeling of being insincere and aimed at stalling more than at a shared desire to work out an amicable solution. At this point, the players 2 cities inside MM were removed, completely unopposed by Aesir (who had after all signed off on their removal from our territory). 

Nothing more is to be said about the case. It was not a deliberate targetting of a player at war, but rather an unfortunate case of miscommunication between an Aesir member and his leadership. One could argue that the ongoing war between Aesir and other alliances has put an unhealthy amount of stress on their leadership, and that somehow this stress has affected their ability to communicate clearly with their membership, but that contemplation would fall outside the scope of this topic. 

I will permit myself one personal note. @Huc - Despite the good humour with which she has taken the comment herself, I feel it is totally unacceptable to call Zenorra a psycho. She is, by far, a more competent (and stable) leader than you have shown yourself to be. 


Edited by Grom - 17 Oct 2017 at 10:52
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Ten Kulch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2017 at 18:47
Originally posted by Grom Grom wrote:

I don't feel the need to defend every single operation conducted inside MM.

You don't.

Most of the time explaining does no good anyway. The players making accusations here already know the history of particular situations, and have already decided to change, omit, or otherwise distort the facts.

Originally posted by Grom Grom wrote:

After a while, these negotiations, being devoid of any practical application, got the distinct feeling of being insincere and aimed at stalling more than at a shared desire to work out an amicable solution.

Been there, done that. Launched the sieges without regrets.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Benedetti View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Benedetti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 11:56
Gragnog has said all there needs to be said. Posts like this, and the Wolves and Sheep one, are useless as the server will not work together to stop him and others like him from doing what he is doing, nor will any kind of appeal to ethics help.

Gragnog attacked me way back when I had joined the Southern Kingdoms and he had just started LOKI. A player with 2 fully established accounts, his cities safely hidden away in SINs land claim vs me with 5 freshly exodused cities. Not really something I had to think about much or long. I didnt complain, I moved my cities back into elgea, and gave up on Illy. I have no interest in wasting my time gaming with people who take satisfaction from such asymetrical warfare.

I don't blame him, it's just not my kind of game. I don't fault Gragnog for doing what he's doing. We've had entertaining PCs at times. it's just not something I would do. It's a game, and the game allows him to do what he's doing. It just means Illy was no longer the game I was looking for, so I spend most of my gaming time (and $) elsewhere. It's not a problem.

I'm still here occasionally for the chat, a tournament, and to see how long it will take SIN to declare they've won the server. I have no doubts the server will end up fully militarized, and probably SINdicated, and that the game will loose much of it's non-military playerbase in the near future. There is no actual need for traders, farmers or gatherers in this game to support a military player. There is just nothing in the game that would hold this development back or that would motivate people strongly enough to change their ways and find an effective way to deal with LOKI and the rest of the SINdicate. Things change, that's the nature of life itself. (And, contrary to what I just said :D, the game is too old to expect far reaching changes from the devs). Moving on to a game that does suit you is far more rewarding then posting on Illy forums.

TK, you are not entirely honest when you say you are not a part of what LOKI does. Stuk and others have made it clear on several occasions that an attack on either LOKI, SIN, 300 etc will be seen as an attack on all (and I think you agree with that?), and if needed (which in itself is of course far from certain) other alliances in the SINdicate will step up. As such, you and 300 are a part of the intimidation and power projected by LOKI, and people who see LOKI as a problem rightly see you as part of that problem.
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Gragnog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gragnog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 14:09
Was not going to post in forum anymore but this is too juicy. Why let the truth get in the way of a good story. You forgot to mention why you were attacked. I guess being at war with us is no excuse for getting attacked. I appologise for attacking you while you were at war with us. The attacks stopped once your new alliance was settled. Loki did not attack you either. It was Kaggen who was in SIN. But then your version way better to get more support against us so I say well done.
Kaggen is my human half
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Benedetti View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 Feb 2016
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benedetti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 15:09
War? There was no war going on at that time Gragnog. Not with SKs and as I remember it not with Storm either. My towns were just south of SINs LC, if we'd been at war I would have been a lot more nervous and a lot less surprised at being attacked.

SKs had just split from Storm, I had stayed with Storm for the duration of a tournament, and then joined SKs. I have no idea why you attacked me, noone else in SKs was attacked. It doesn't really matter. It's not like the game requires war before allowing an attack. It was my choice to try to move into BL, and my choice to move out again.

I don't remember if you used Kaggen or Gragnog. I do know whichever account it was was in LOKI at that time. As I remember it both were in LOKI at the time but not 100% sure about that.

Again, I don't blame you for anything, I have no beef in all this, so I have no need to make any "story" any better.

PS raise support against you and co? That's not what I'm doing at all. I fully admit to your right to play this game as you want to play it. I'm not even sure the server getting militarized is a bad thing overall. It just means *I* personally am not interested in playing much, and that posts such as the original post are useless and won't change anything.


Edited by Benedetti - 19 Oct 2017 at 15:15
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